Who Goes To Heaven?

By Mike Edwards

I don’t believe the main message of the Bible and Jesus is about saving you from Hell so you can enter Heaven, but most of us wonder what happens after death. I am convinced Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself here on earth. Jesus seemed more focused on life here on earth than life after death. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us (John 16), not waiting to be rescued from earth to heaven. Besides, the Bible’s message couldn’t be about avoiding Hell.

Hell is morally and biblically impossible! 

Many who believe God exist suggest God has given us moral intuitions to discern evil from good. We don’t need a Book to know sexual abuse or murder is wrong. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible morally or biblically. See here. See here. Humans wouldn’t even create such a place for our enemies. God or humans can’t possibly be happy in heaven if loved ones are tormented after death forever.

The Bible might even declare all go to heaven

It is suggested by many religious leaders that according to the Bible some go to hell and some go to heaven, though doubtful a literal Hell exist. Some may suggest that some will simply die and others go to heaven. The problem is the Bible, being literature, requires interpretation. It is possible to interpret the Bible as claiming all eventually go to be with God after death.  See here.

What did Jesus say about heaven or eternal life?

The word “heaven” appears the most in the Gospel of Matthew. The Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a place to go after life on earth. Jesus sought to bring heavenly love to earth – “on earth as in heaven.” Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37). The emphasis appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living being a loving life empowered by God. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help!

More of what Jesus said through the eyes of Mark

Most Christians believe to understand Jesus is to understand God. I read through the Gospel of Mark to see what Jesus’ message was to others. Mark’s Gospel is considered the earliest written from which Matthew and Luke cited. In all the Gospels Jesus never advises to preach to the masses to save them from Hell in the afterlife. Jesus seemingly sought to help others avoid hell here on earth. Sin is destructive. It has natural consequences.

• When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. I don’t see any message to the disciples other than living a life worth living.
• Jesus said “Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.” (Mark 3:35) Being close to God or Jesus isn’t claiming certain beliefs or traditions; Jesus simply encouraged actions that lead to loving others as yourself. “Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all.” (Mark 9:35)
• People were bringing children to Jesus and he said “anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” (Mark 10:15) The kingdom of God was not a future home but a current reality. Jesus has just said “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mark 9:1)
• A rich person asked how to have eternal life. Jesus said sell everything and follow me. (Mark 10: 17-31) Surely Jesus’ point was to love people more than possessions. What does following Jesus mean? When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees and say a prayer!
• The above interactions are similar to when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. Where was his evangelical spiel. He might never see her again! Apparently, Jesus came to encourage living a loving life toward others and yourself.

Why not live like hell here on earth?

One may think that if Hell isn’t a reality and who knows about Heaven – why not live our sinful fantasies? I experience such actions end up in misery. I know I am a better husband, father, and friend because of God’s influence. God only wants to help you become the person you deep down desire to come. We will fail but God is quick to forgive and help us to get back up. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Decide on short or long-term happiness. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come. 

What’s next in afterlife?

The Bible suggests, whether having faith here on earth or not, all will be judged. After death God may bring to memory actions of betrayal and how it felt to their victims. The cleansing and educative effect may take longer for some than others. Justice from a fair, merciful God is possible despite people being given a second chance after death. We don’t know exactly what happens after life here on earth. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do. It is just as reasonable, if not more reasonable, to believe a loving God can choose to take forever in this life and the life to come to save everyone from themselves.

Who Goes To Heaven?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

I Am Done With…

by Glenn Hager

This is one of the easiest and most cathartic posts I have ever written. It’s easy because I can clearly catalog the characteristics of evangelical religion that are distasteful to me.

Since I write this at the peak fervor of our presidential campaign, Evangelical entanglement with politics immediately comes to mind.

There seems to be a confusion about kingdoms. Christ’s kingdom and all the kingdoms of this world are vastly different. One is a kingdom of love and the others are kingdoms of power.

Earthly kingdoms are about control, Christ’s kingdom is about influence, the way we live our lives and love people. Earthly kingdoms are about enforcing laws, Christ’s is about love and changing hearts. Earthly kingdoms are about war, Christ’s is about peace with God and one another. Earthly kingdoms are about mandating rules, Christ’s is about choosing his ways from the heart.

Christian Nationalism is an attempt to use earthly kingdoms to force on people what some determine to be Christian values. It’s like trying to mix oil and water. They are in opposition to one another. You cannot legislate or mandate a changed heart. It opens the door for politicians to adopt a few socially conservative policies, do lip service to religion, and use a couple of evangelical buzz words to get elected.

During the January 6^th riots, I was as shocked as any American to witness the violent assault of the very heart of our government after being ginned-up by a man whose ego and was so huge but so fragile that he would assault our very democracy to try to be “a winner” (really a looser).

In the violent chaos flags were waving, the American Flag, the Don’t Tread on Me Flag (Gadsden Flag), the Confederate Flag, the Trump Flag, and the Christian Flag. These flags represent the elements of Christian Nationalism. They are a toxic cocktail that confuses patriotism, individualism, racism, cultism, and religion. It looks nothing like Jesus and everything like an authoritarian political movement that is destroying the witness of the church.

Folks who are not in the club, don’t get it. They wonder, “Why are Christians so hateful, so unloving, so bent on forcing their views on others.” Even they know that is not at all like Christ. This movement exposes a hypocrisy of a superficial faith defined by a few slogans, that hates its enemies, and ignores the obvious faults of its champion (not Christ).

Christianity has become an exclusive club for the already convinced. So, churches hire a charismatic pastor and staff, build an impressive building, and offer a wide array of programs to keep the sheep happy and proud of what they have. They think the bigger all of this gets, the more successful the church must be. They rely on these assets, the buildings and staff.  With all the salaries and the mortgage, it takes a lot of money to keep the sheep happy.

Every church has a little different idea about how to do church, hence the countless varieties, sometimes at the same intersection, like fast food outlets.

Pastors and leaders have unrealistic expectations placed on them. A few are egomaniacs. Most are simply trying to fulfill their calling and keep the flock happy. Almost none can be honest about their feelings and struggles with anyone in the congregation because they are expected to be above mortal temptations (unlike the congregants). They are not, as proven by the numerous scandals involving members of the clergy.

Too many churches and associations of churches have become self-centered, politically affiliated rest homes for the long-since convinced with little concern for those who need to see the Gospel in action.

I join the millions who are done with that.

But it doesn’t mean we are done with Jesus.

Glenn Hager is a former pastor, newspaper columnist, magazine contributor, blogger (glennhager.com), and author of two books. He also designs lighting (http://doo-dads.com/). Glenn and his wife, Patty live in northeastern Illinois.

Can We Be More Considerate Saying We Are Made In God’s Image?

By Mike Edwards

What prompted this Post is hearing Christian leaders often declaring all, even unbelievers, are made in God’s image. We can be more sensitive to those who question the Bible and more understanding there are differences what exactly is claimed about God’s image/character. Now, if someone declares we are made in Satan’s image, we have a verbal fight on our hands. Those who claim we are made in God’s image often do so because they believe we humans should strive to be perfect like God. But we don’t all agree what God’s perfection is according to the Bible.   

The Bible is the main source for claiming we are made in God’s image 

The Bible is often quoted to defend we are made in God’s image. “So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.” (Gen 1:27) The Bible also claims God commanded genocide – “This is why the Lord Almighty says Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them: put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.” (I Sam 15:2-3). See 9 Reasons To Not Trust The Bible’s Claims About God! The truth is we cannot prove God necessarily approve of everything written about God in the Bible. Personally, I don’t mind hearing I am made in God’s image, but we must be careful regarding assumptions about God’s character.

What is God’s image according to the Bible when it comes to moral perfection?

Many claim that God tortures those forever in the afterlife if reject God here on earth, that God rejects women in leadership roles, and God condemn others for being attracted to the same gender. Who can blame others for rejecting a God contrary to our moral intuitions! One’s view of God is often based on one’s interpretation of the Bible or belief that the biblical writers understood God perfectly. We can’t prove the biblical writers were always right about God, but even if the writers had perfect understanding the Bible is subject to interpretation. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here.  See here.  See here.

And what about evolution? 

We don’t know how we all got here. Did God create out of nothing the first man and woman – Adam and Eve from where we all originate? We can’t prove the first couple in Genesis are historical or fictional people created for the purpose of talking about God and human relationships. The biblical writers of Genesis weren’t there in the beginning of creation. Many Christian scientists believe humans evolved over time beginning with the animal kingdom. See https://biologos.org/  If this turns out to be true, were the first creations (not humans) made in God’s image? I just think we need to be more thoughtful in our declaration being made in the image of God. Am I made in an animal’s image? 

Whose image are we made in? 

I might say “Since I believe in a perfect Creator, I am convinced a Creator loves the way their creations know how they ought to love one another.” The challenge though is that even Christians don’t agree what God’s perfect love is like. We don’t have to all agree whose image we are made in, but we can surely agree we should all strive to be perfect – loving others like we want to be loved. What image we should proclaim isn’t that complicated – what is perfect love!

Can We Stop Saying Everything Happens For A Reason!

Can We Stop Saying We Know What Biblical Truths Are?

Can We Stop Saying Our Rights As A Nation Come From God?

Can We Stop Saying “Biblical Worldview”?

Can We Stop Saying “Love The Sinner, Hate The Sin”!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Is The Bible Really The Word Of God?

By Mike Edwards

We often hear claims that the Bible is “THE WORD OF GOD.” A perfect, loving God can’t lie, so one may assume that all the Bible claims about God is true. But the Bible can’t be the definitive word about God since subject to interpretation (different scholarly views of the same passages). Besides, we can’t prove God controlled if the writers always accurately portrayed God.

The truth is we can’t prove God inspired the Bible 

The biggest proof often given to suggest God inspired perfect thoughts written down is because the Bible claims that to be so (i.e. 2 Tim 2:16). But this passage has several different interpretations. Anyway, a Book isn’t proven to be inspired because it claims to be inspired. Those who claim God’s inspired the Bible would not accept the Koran to be divinely inspired because it makes such claims. It seems fair to ask if divine inspiration is so important and God is that controlling, why didn’t God preserve original manuscripts to remove doubts of editorial errors?

Even if God controlled everything written in the Bible . . . 

Even if we could prove the writers of the Bible always understood God perfectly, we can’t claim our interpretations are perfect. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what God believes about many moral values. See here.  See here.  See here. Gays are often condemned, women’s leadership roles are limited despite their gifts, and it is suggested a fiery torturous afterlife awaits infidels – all in God’s name. Extremists often will advocate killing infidels in this life because they believe their Holy Book is inspired by God and of course their interpretation is the right one.

So, how do we know what God is like? 

Over half the people born into this world didn’t have a Bible. Were they all clueless what a loving God would be like? If we can question if writers always understood God perfectly, we can naturally wonder if God’s actions would ever violate our moral intuitions of a loving God. See here.  If a loving Creator exists, which is the only God worth believing it, it is only intuitive that a Creator loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. We all seem to know the question we ought to ask ourselves – am I loving others perfectly? Self-evident morals aren’t hidden in any Holy Book. We all have an inborn sense of good and evil. Our moral intuitions, unless you are a terrorist, aren’t the enemy! 

Why bother to read the Bible if can’t prove God approved all written? 

It doesn’t matter if you believe the Bible is inspired. You still must interpret the Bible and you may be right or possibly wrong. Uncertainty is a fact of life unless my son or son-in laws mistreat women! The Bible is God’s story beginning with Israel and culminating with the life of Jesus that we don’t possess in other documents. God may have inspired/encouraged the writers to write but didn’t necessarily approve of everything written about God. Enjoy what God is trying to reveal to you about your Creator and how to treat others. Insights contrary to how you know you ought to love your neighbor may be amiss. A Book must not replace our relationship with God and common moral sense. Questioning the Bible may lead to knowing God better!

Is The Bible Really The Word Of God?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

10 Books That Changed My Life!

By Mike Edwards

Who the heck am I that may influence what you may read! I enjoy reading other people’s list of books that excite them. I may discover a Book that I didn’t know about. The title of a Book doesn’t always peak one’s interest to read. I add a brief comment of each book suggested to see if that relates to what you are seeking to know more about God. It’s hard to only list 10 books but I narrowed my list from 30 favorite books that have had the greatest influence in being a better, more thoughtful person, God-follower. I have probably read over a thousand books. I am convinced reading the thoughts of others is the path toward wisdom.

1. Ruth Tucker: Black And White Bible, Black And Blue Wife: My Story Of Finding Hope After Domestic Abuse – I had no idea the most influential woman scholar in my life regarding what the Bible really says about women’s roles had suffered such abuse. You can’t go wrong reading any of her books about the Bible and women’s roles. There is no way God limits women in the home, church, or public. You haven’t met my wife, daughters, and women I know! 

2. Thomas Oord: God Can’t. Dr. Oord provides the most loving, moral explanation of why God can’t intervene more in evil and suffering though God is dying to do so. The biggest reason why many hesitate to believe in God, though inclined to believe, is there is so much evil in the world 

3. David Gushee: Changing Our Mind. Finally, a leading Christian scholar and ethicist comes out and admits the Bible can’t be used to declare God condemns gays. Amen!

4. Eric Seibert: Disturbing Divine Behaviors. I believe Seibert offers a more rational, loving explanation as to how we should understand biblical texts where God is depicted as acting irrationally, violently, or destructively 

5. I H Marshall: Kept by the Power of God. I had to include this book for sentimental reasons. One of the first books I read many decades ago that freed me from having to believe God elects and love only certain people thus limiting God’s grace. Damn Calvin theology! I am convinced Calvin’s views are exegetically and morally bankrupt

6. Craig Keener – Paul, Women, and Wives – Marriage And Women’s Ministry In The Letters of Paul. Finally, a biblical scholar who disputes that the Apostle Paul, a main writer of New Testament books, doesn’t necessarily defend women being prevented to serve in leadership roles in the church or that marriages shouldn’t be mutually submissive as opposed to a male being the leader

7. Garry Frieson & J. Robin Maxson: Decision Making And The Will Of God: A Biblical Alternative To the Traditional View. Another book read many decades ago began the pilgrimage of understanding how God’s guides and that indeed the future is not a specific script. One doesn’t have to worry or be anxious that they are missing God’s will, like I did in my twenties

8. Richard Rice: God’s Foreknowledge and Man’s Free Will. This book is one of the most precise books on the freedom of God and how this means the future is open. Our future is not predetermined, thus God is not somehow looking into future evil and suffering and doing nothing

9. Michele Weiner Davis: Divorce Busting. You can’t go wrong reading any of her books on relationships. As a counselor she empowered me to go down the road in search of solutions for couples rather than a regurgitation of problems which is often a dead end

10. John Rosemond: Teen-Proofing – Fostering Responsible Decision Making In Your Teenager. Can’t go wrong reading any of Rosemond’s books on parenting. He helped me to understand how to not piss my kids off unnecessarily, thus possibly leading to a better relationship during challenging teen times

10 Books That Changed My Life!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

What Is Misinformation? Should We Censor Misinformation?

By Mike Edwards

This is more of a spiritual than political blog, but these two arenas share commonalities. Both suppress freedom of speech or open dialogue. Try claiming God doesn’t condemn gays. You are called a heretic in religious places, despite disagreement among scholars what the Bible claims. Dare to argue Covid vaccine have risks and you are called a mis-informer or conspiracist. The problem is condemnation of expression of opinions. The solution is encouraging civil discussions, Certainty is a myth except in the eye of the beholder!

Misinformation isn’t contrary opinions to what a supposed Divine inspired Book says 

Ancient literature subject to interpretation cannot be the definitive word on truth. Even if the writers understood their God perfectly, which we can’t prove, we can’t claim our interpretations are perfect. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for the Bible don’t agree what God thinks about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here. See here. See here.  Gays are condemned and women’s leadership roles are limited in God’s name, despite their gifts. Supposedly, a fiery torturous afterlife awaits infidels! How do we pursue what is true about God? A Creator surely loves the way creatures intuitively think they ought to love. Perfect Godly and human love must be the same. Such knowledge is a discussion, not one claiming to know the truth. 

Misinformation isn’t what Government or Health Officials claim to be false 

It has been declared in the past that the Covid vaccines prevented infection and transmission of the disease. That was the purpose of mandates. Scientists and doctors who declared otherwise were censored, but it turns out that weren’t the mis-informers. Those who claimed masks didn’t prevent the spread of a virus were called mis-informers. Turns out a review that dug into findings of 78 randomized controlled trials discovered wearing masks made little or no difference in stopping the virus. See here. Even during a pandemic, we must be open what we can’t be certain about to respect individual choice/freedom. Dictatorships don’t of course!

Misinformation isn’t based just on feelings

One may argue truth isn’t objective. I understand why one may take such a stance. Many claim they know the truth and then proceed to lord that opinion over others as if they stand on higher moral grounds. The truth is uncertainties surround what we believe to be true. But I don’t think we can afford to suggest there aren’t objective truths. If truth is determined just on feelings, a murderer or sexual predator could claim innocence because they felt their actions were justified. Laws aren’t possible if there aren’t differences between good and evil actions. Truth isn’t always certain for sure; they is why free speech is critical in the pursuit of truth.   

Free speech is necessary to allow the battle of ideas when certainty doesn’t exist 

A preacher can’t claim God condemns gays because the Bible says so. Many of us don’t believe the Bible says any such thing. See here. Most of us believe except true racists that all humans are created equal, not that one’s skin color determines superiority. Yes, the KKK is allowed to state their hate speech on public platforms. I like my chances of winning that argument in the free market of ideas.  I enjoy racists being exposed for their ideas. The only free speech that should be censored is that which encourages others to commit violence on others. You can’t say “any Jew you see should be killed.”

Imagine a world that openly pursed truth

• If religious leaders didn’t always claim their biblical interpretation is correct and at least acknowledge literature requires interpretation despite supposed divine inspiration? What are religious leaders afraid of discussing if they have the truth?
• If we listened to everyone’s opinion civilly and sought to discern together what was the most loving action according to the circumstances
• If we closely guarded one’s freedom to choose when the possibility exist you could be wrong, rather than calling others heretics or conspiracists
• The best way to resolve a disagreement is to have both parties talk of their views openly to be evaluated by individuals listening

“When you tear out a man’s tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you’re only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” ― George R.R. Martin 

What Is Misinformation? Should We Censor Misinformation?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Does God Really Punish Us?

By Mike Edwards

If you believe in a God, it is normal to wonder if our suffering is from a punitive God for past sins. We never live up to our standards, much less God’s, so it can be tempting to wonder if God is teaching us a lesson. I am convinced God doesn’t actively punish us, as if God can control everything that happens in the world. I have a hunch we simply reap what we sow. It is true some sow a lot of evil and reap very little! If you believe God is in control of punishment, you must believe God is letting a lot of evil slide and maybe not your own.

We can’t just rely on the Bible to advise us of God’s character

God isn’t nearly as active in punishing in the New Testament as in the Old Testament. We have to wonder about the seemingly contradiction. Didn’t God supposedly inspire all writers? In the OT God is often reported to  punish Israel as a nation for evil and rewarding good. Maybe OT writers were confused if sacrilegious to not express God as all powerful and controlling. But then even the OT is contradictory at times. Job is described as blameless and righteous (1:1) and doesn’t escape suffering.

What is Godly love? It seems intuitive that perfect Godly and human love are the same. Heresy alert – maybe exploring perfect human love provides more insight to God’s role in punishment than the biblical writers which we have to interpret their thoughts anyway.

God can’t control the consequences of your actions!

I have written here  that God can’t be all-powerful or controlling and be true to God’s nature. How can God be all-powerful and creatures have some freedom? Even the Bible claims love does not insist on its own way. (I Cor 13:5) So, God can’t control evil and suffering in the world. See here.

Evil and suffering in the world may be because God cannot intervene single-handedly without human help. If God can’t control the amount of suffering we do or don’t receive, God can’t control the punishment we do or don’t receive.

How does punishment work if not controlled by God?

I know worrisome for some that God not in complete control, but some may be more comforted to believe when suffering that God isn’t sitting idly by. God is always empowering and inspiring all to help others. We also don’t have to blame God why others don’t reap what they sow. Wrongdoing has its own punishment due to regrets or loss of relationships. Selfish people often don’t have many friends or few attend their funeral. God, like loving parents, is hoping for change before it is too late. God’s love, mercy, and encouragement, not God’s threat of punishment, can lead to becoming the unselfish person we desire to be.  For the selfish – good luck looking back on life without regrets unlike the unselfish!

Does God Really Punish Us?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

My Christian Leadership Story

by Michael Donahoe

I grew up in the traditional, organized church. I was always taught that the pastor was head of the church, and he had all the answers and so much more knowledge than anyone else in the church. I mention the pastor as a ‘he’ because when I was young and growing up in the church it was unheard of to have a woman pastor.

I remember scheduling meetings with the pastor so I could ask him questions and find out all the answers to Christian living. It almost floored me one time when I asked the pastor a question and he actually said he did not know the answer.

Looking back, I can see that I certainly looked to the pastor rather than looking to the Spirit. I was putting my hope in a man that I thought could tell me everything about God, yet I was not seeking to know God himself.

Next in line were the board of elders. Each of them were so much more holy than I or anyone else in the church or else they would not be in that position of authority. At least that is what I thought at the time. I have a friend who thinks prayers have more authority when she goes to the board of elders and has them pray.

Questioning Christian Leadership

The longer I was in the church, the more I began to wonder about things. Of course I did not dare ask the questions I had since people would be questioning my faith, or think I was questioning the pastor.

When I read that Christ was the head of His church, I wondered why the pastor seemed to get credit for that position.

I read that we should call no one father (or pastor) other than God, and I again wondered why people in position of leadership and authority in the church wanted to be called pastor or apostle or elder.

We are told that the Holy Spirit is our guide and teacher, and we do not need anyone other than him. Yet, we look to the pastor, or an elder, or some big name evangelist to find all the answers to our questions.

I began getting dissatisfied with having these questions and not letting them surface enough to come out and be asked. I began to realize I had more and more questions, and fewer and fewer answers.

I finally started coming across books and websites of people who seemed to be in the same boat. They were wondering and questioning and being open with their questions. Some of them seemed to actually come up with some answers that made sense to me.

The more I thought, questioned, and read, the more I began to realize that our traditional church system is really not what God intended for the church. I also realized that questioning is not a lack of faith. God can handle our questioning; in fact, most of the time Jesus taught more with questions than answers. He wanted people to question and reason over things.

True Christian Leadership

The true Church that Jesus is building is not a brick and mortar place. The head of the Church that Jesus is building is not a pastor, pope, elder, or apostle. In fact, the head is not a man or woman at all.

Leadership in the Church of Jesus is not what we have always thought of either. When we realize Christ is the head and leader of his Church, we begin to realize that man has no business demanding or expecting people to follow them and put them in the place of Christ.

True Christian leadership is not an office of authority. It is not a place for only a few who are specially trained at a man-made Bible school. True Christian leadership is for all of us who are members of the Church of Christ. We are all kings and priests; we are all holy and righteous because of Christ. To be clear, when I say Church of Christ, I’m not talking about any denomination or physical building. The true Church is a community of people who are following Christ, and He is our head. All the rest of us, men and women alike, are equally functioning body parts of his Church.

No person has a place of authority over another. That is the world’s way of doing things. That is the business way of doing things. Needless to say, there are a lot of churches and religious organizations that are acting like big business with their presidents and CEO’s, but that is not how it should be.

Christian Leadership as God intended is the Spirit working through the different body parts, leading by example. They are encouragers and teachers from a place of love and experience, not a place of authority and power. Each of us are leaders at one time or another in this sense of leading by example, experience, and love. We come in contact with those who need encouragement or a little guidance, not from someone who thinks they know it all, but from someone who has been there. A person who, out of love, wants to see the best for everyone.

True Christian leaders will not demand your loyalty. They will not want your allegiance to them. They will not rule over you with authority and expect you to follow them no matter what. True leaders will want to lead you to the head and true leader of the Church, Jesus. It is time we stop looking to men and women as our guides and leaders, and look to Jesus. We need to listen for the leading, guidance, and teaching of the Holy Spirit who is actually God within us, rather than seeking the knowledge and wisdom of mere men.

*******

Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

Why Doesn’t God Prevent Evil And My Suffering?

By Mike Edwards

Many don’t have more of a relationship with God because they can’t justify why an all-loving, all-powerful God doesn’t prevent more evil in this world. Anyone inclined to believe in a God likely believe such a God must be all-loving. No other God is worth believing in! So, why doesn’t a supposed all-loving/powerful God intervene in evil or suffering more than they do. Any human parent that has the power to prevent a rape, murder, sexual assault and doesn’t isn’t truly loving. Why would we judge God any differently if a Creator surely created us to love like them?

If God Is All-Powerful …. 

Most who have grown up in the institutional church have been taught that God is all-powerful. God can cause miracles without any human help or cooperation. It seems only intuitive that an all-powerful God can control suffering if able to create, be in all places at one time, resurrect Jesus from the dead, etc. But it is obvious God doesn’t answer many prayers to relieve suffering.  One may claim God is all-powerful or Omnipotent to show respect, but a God acting arbitrarily toward human suffering isn’t easy to answer – unless blame unanswered prayer due to one’s sins.

Maybe God can’t be all-powerful 

A less popular assumption is that God can’t be all-powerful. Logically, how can God be all-powerful and humans have some freedom/power? Besides, a perfect God’s love can’t be all-powerful. See here. Suffering (prayer unanswered) may be because God cannot intervene single-handedly. God can’t physically interfere in evil or suffering without human help. See here.

Don’t miracles prove God is all-powerful? 

I believe in the possibility of miracles but lots of prayers asking for healing aren’t answered. Is God’s love infrequent or arbitrary? Do miracles not happen because some people are less sinful or beg better at the feet of an arbitrary God? I believe a better explanation for healings is that various biological and environmental factors are involved such as cells and organs.  If God doesn’t deny human freedom, it may not be a stretch to say God has to account for natural freedom as well. Perhaps miracles can happen when God’s love aligns with countless factors known and not known. God cannot intervene singlehandedly, but a loving God always wants to intervene whenever circumstances will allow. 

Who do you imagine God is like?

The Bible can’t be the definitive word on God since subject to interpretation and questioning if God agrees with all written about God. We are free to speculate. Most Bible-quoting folks believe we are made in the image of God. If a Creator exists, perhaps that Creator informs us through our moral intuitions how we ought to love others. Image bearers should act as we think a loving God/human parent should act. I am convinced God is always seeking to intervene when possible.  We don’t have to assume God can answer our prayers but doesn’t for some unknown reason. God suffers with us, but the unfortunate truth in a free world is suffering happens. Lean on God and others for emotional support and encouragement in difficult times.

Why Doesn’t God Prevent Evil And My Suffering?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Shouldn’t Christians Stop Being So Damn Certain!

By Mike Edwards

One of my biggest regrets in my journey with God is being so damn certain when younger. I was certain evolution was false because the Bible supposedly claimed so. I was so certain Jesus’ main message was how to avoid Hell. It is never too late to change. I tried to make amends when possible, especially with my children, but unfortunately such a reputation sometimes lingers with those you are closest too. In the past I used the poor excuse that my certainty was just being passionate. I wish I had known the advantages of not coming off as a “know it all (certain).” I am responsibility for my actions, but I also had no role models who led by being open-minded.

The truth is biblical scholars aren’t certain about God and moral issues

Many claim that God tortures those forever in the afterlife if reject God here on earth, that God rejects women in leadership roles, and God condemn others for being attracted to the same gender. Who can blame others for rejecting a God contrary to our moral intuitions! One’s view of God is often based on one’s interpretation of the Bible or belief that the biblical writers understood God perfectly. We can’t prove the biblical writers were always right about God but even if the writers had perfect understanding, the Bible is subject to interpretation. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here.  See here.  See here.

There are sound philosophical reasons to not be certain if God exist

We can’t be certain about God’s true character much less if God exist. Whether one believes in a God has an obvious faith component. Let’s not accuse those who believe in a God as needing a crutch or accuse those, who question the reality of an invisible God, as being wicked and ignorant of their feelings. If wrong to doubt God exists, Christians sin if doubt God in tough times.

Some rightly can’t understand what a good God – the only God worth believing in – doesn’t intervene more in this world with evil. I have suggested a possible explanation here as espoused by biblical scholar Thomas Oord. It makes the most sense to me, but it may not satisfy you or others. People that don’t accept apologetic reasons given for God and evil are not being rebellious.  Also, why is God so hidden if God truly wants us to believe in God. There are plausible explanations but let’s not condemn those who reject any argument put forth. Save confrontations for those who say “I don’t care if there is a God. I will treat others however the hell I want to.” 

Can we be certain of anything?

Certainty is an illusion unless talking about universal moral sins such as rape or incest. Adultery isn’t only wrong in the eyes of the betrayer. I am convinced all know how a loving human should act, whether they never had a Bible (majority born in this world) or don’t believe in God. Many decisions are not black and white and require open debate. May the best, most common-sense position win. One must have the freedom to decide what is the best decision for themselves, or the powerful rule the powerless. It is common to hear one argue “The Bible says” without adding “according to my understanding.” As mentioned, the truth is contrary biblical interpretations exist for many moral issues.

Uncertainty can be a good thing!

Truth is often not known but to be pursued. If you find one rational person that has a difference of opinion from your own, you should consider their opinion. I don’t care if it concerns the safety of vaccines, climate solutions, whether Hell literal exist, or if God condemns gays. We often don’t recognize what doesn’t work in our personal relationships doesn’t work in the public arena either. Partners who act as if they are always right and their partner is wrong are headed toward divorce or a sucky relationship. Having good intentions by believing you are right for the whole doesn’t matter when certainty isn’t universal. Open discussions can lead to a greater good for the most. Imagine a world:

• If we were open to defending our beliefs civilly

• If we closely guarded one’s freedom to choose when the possibility exist you could be wrong

• If we stopped calling those who disagreed with us heretics or conspiracists

• If politicians encouraged open discussions to better discern together the greatest good for all

• If Christians didn’t always claim their biblical interpretation is correct

Shouldn’t Christians Stop Being So Damn Certain!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com