Showing posts with label gay. Show all posts
Showing posts with label gay. Show all posts

Saturday, August 12, 2023

The Church and LGBTQ

by Jim Gordon

Unfortunately, we know many people have been treated wrong within the church system. Some more severe that others, but none of it is good.

I think one of the groups that seem to be affected most by this are those who are LGBTQ. I have seen this group of people treated rudely and like second class citizens in many churches where they should find love and acceptance more than anywhere else. God said to love our neighbors, he did not say to love only those with whom we agree.

Even in the churches that are actually welcoming, LGBTQ people are often not accepted and allowed to participate fully within the organization or hold certain positions. They are welcome to come in and sit and listen so hopefully the church can change them, but they are not welcome to come in and participate in any way within the church program.

Christian people will deny rights and services to LGBTQ people based on their Christian beliefs, unfortunately even including fellow Christians who are LGBTQ. Even government office holders can refuse certain services and basically get away with it because they say it goes against their Christian morals. As a Christian, I say these things should not be. This is nothing like the example of Jesus.

Labels are placed on many people, gay/straight, black/white, male/female, christian/atheist, American/foreign/immigrant. Yet behind those labels are human beings who were created in the image of God. They are loved and accepted by God and we are told as followers of Christ to be known for our love for one another.

I feel for those who are LGBTQ. It hurts to see people who were created and loved by God be rejected and abused by those who claim Christianity. I think it is time to look past the labels, look past personal feelings and accept people just the way they are, because they are created and loved by God.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Thursday, August 10, 2023

We Must Rethink The Bible When It Comes To Gays!

By Mike Edwards

I am going to focus briefly on the main issue as to why I think Christians must change how they view the Bible. There are many reasons. Women suffer violence because some claim the Bible says God wants women submissive to men in ways men are not similarly submissive to women. It doesn’t matter all men don’t take a mile when given an inch. Enough do! But perhaps even worse, Christian leaders condemn gays for being gay because the Bible supposedly does. I wish I had known 40 years ago what I know now!

It doesn’t matter even if you think God inspired the Bible!

It is natural to assume inspiration means God agreed with what the biblical writers claimed about God. If writers wrote God condemns gays according to the Bible, then Christians must do the same. I doubt God inspired everything written in the Bible about God, so the writers might be wrong about God. But even if you believe God inspired every word in the Bible and agrees with all written about God, not all biblical scholars interpret that Bible condemning monogamous gay relationships. See hereI understand condemning unfaithfulness according to the Bible, but we don’t need a book for such condemnation. But claiming God through the Bible condemns gays is subject to biblical interpretation. Your interpretation may be wrong, so stay openminded.

Being gay isn’t a choice!

Many Christians, worse leaders, are quick to judge in God’s name when one admits they are gay. Listen to the Podcast of one man’s journey: Blue Babies Pink by B.T. Harman. Hopefully, it will give you compassion as to the struggles growing up gay. We condemn stealing, murder, and gayness in the same breath. Stealing is a choice. Being gay is not a choice. Listen to their stories before judging. Stop with “love the sinner, hate the sin” speeches. It is impossible to feel loved and accepted when such words are used. Even if you believe the Bible condemns gays, do you tell someone overweight that “I love you but I hate your behaviors.” Look in the mirror for most of us. I’m not overweight but my belly fat is an issue. Anyway, most gays will tell you this is not a choice they have. This is who they are. Why would anyone choose a life of hostility and bigotry?

Please!

I am begging you to not condemn gays because the Bible supposedly does. Christian leaders – show some courage and change your stance. You may not agree with my interpretations, but I will admit my interpretation could be wrong if you will. Listen to each gay’s story and love them like you would want to be loved if you had the same journey. I believe if we at least stopped claiming certainty in God’s name regarding gays or women’ roles in marriage or in church, we would have more open conversations and reveal more the loving God we believe in.

Dear Reader: If you still think being gay is a choice and you must condemn gays in God’s name, I beg you to listen to Blue Babies Pink podcast episodes or if prefer more reading than audio see blog Blue Babies Pink

We Must Rethink The Bible When It Comes To Gays!

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Saturday, December 3, 2022

Why the Hatred Towards LGBTQ

by Michael Donahoe

As I was thinking about the terrible tragedy recently at Club Q, and the similar tragedy a few years ago at the Pulse Nigh Club, I wondered why such horrible treatment is directed toward those who are LGBTQ.

They are people who just want to be themselves, to be accepted, live a good life, find love and be successful. To me, that sure sounds like every other person in the world. Yet, because they find love or express their sexuality in different ways than others, they are targeted for hateful treatment. That is so sad, so wrong and so unChrist-like.

Unfortunately, such horrible treatment will only continue if hate speech continues from some of our political leaders, from some of our Christian leaders and if Christian Nationalism gets more power. What gets me the most is the hateful speech and treatment that comes from many who claim to follow Jesus. Christians are supposed to be known for their love of God and love of people. We do not always agree, but Jesus said to love one another. He never said to judge, condemn and treat others as less-than or as second-class citizens.

I do not understand why people will go to the extremes of hatred and exclusion against those who are LGBTQ. Even if you disagree or do not understand, why is it that you cannot be loving and kind toward fellow human beings?

If you choose to believe that being LGBTQ is a sin, that is your choice. But, even with that particular belief it gives no one the right to judge, condemn and hate them.

I personally believe that the few verses in the Bible that refer to this subject are often misunderstood. They may have been misinterpreted over the years by the men who were doing the translating due to the differences in the times and customs when the Bible was written, along with the many changes in words and meanings over the years. Of course, this does not necessarily mean the translations of the Bible are wrong, but there are certainly other views and interpretations that should be looked at before making up your mind on what is correct. I have read several books that shed light on some other interpretations of these questionable verses and I think it is a good idea to think about these views to help understand what the writers may have meant. The books referred to are listed for further study:

Clobber the Passages: Seven Deadly Verses by Mel White

UnClobber: Rethinking Our Misuse of the Bible on Homosexuality by Colby Martin

Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate by Justin Lee

God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships by Matthew Vines

Is God A Gay Basher?: Memoirs of a Christian, gay affirming Lesbian by Jan Liebegott

The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships by Jeff Miner

I also look at the example of Jesus and how he loved and accepted people, especially those the religious leaders condemned. Jesus did not tell us to judge and condemn people, but he said to love one another.

I believe those who are LGBTQ are normal human beings who were created by and loved by God and just want to live their lives like everyone else. Just like any other human being, whether you agree or not, we all deserve equal rights and to be treated with love and respect.

I will end with a link to an article I came across by Mark Sandlin which gives a few things to think about when it comes to treating those who are LGBTQ in a kind and loving way:


Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://myopinionblog.substack.com/

Thursday, June 2, 2022

Is Being Gay A Sin?

by Jim Gordon

I grew up in the institutional church and was always of the persuasion that being gay was a sin. I felt that since I was pretty open by saying I hated the sin but loved the sinner, I was doing better than most. Yet, either way I was saying being gay was a sin.

I never treated those who were gay in a bad way. I never treated any of my friends or relatives who were gay any different than I treated anyone else. I saw them as normal everyday people, except for a great sin in their life.

Things changed on this subject, and amazingly it was after leaving the institutional church. I started to see that God loves people, all people. There was no ‘I love you but’ when it came to God. I started to read some on the subject (something I never dreamed of doing before). I read Justin Lee and Matthew Vines. I really thought about a God of love and how could that God condemn people for the way he made them.

I finally began to see those who are LGBTQ for who they really are….people, normal, everyday people. Take away the labels and you have human beings like everyone else. Just because they were born with different sexual views does not make them second class citizens and does not make them deserving of the awful ways they are treated, especially by the christian world. They are doing nothing more than being themselves the way God made them.

Today I have a special sense of wanting to show those who are LGBTQ that all straight people who call themselves christian are not the same. I want to help promote information and acceptance between straight christian people and those who are LGBTQ, whether christian or not. I can no longer say I believe being gay is a sin. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding and misinterpretation by the church and evangelical christians.

I recently read a book by Amber Cantorna called Refocusing My Family. It is such an interesting read, telling of her questions, struggles and hardships in her walk with God and her family. Her traditional christian upbringing and her dad being an employee of Focus on the Family made it extremely hard on her when she came out as gay. What terrible struggles and treatment she received. It is so hard for me to understand how parents can disown their children, yet I know it happens all the time.

I also believe that christians who still believe being gay is wrong are handling it all wrong. Whether you agree or disagree, our instructions from Jesus are to love God, love our neighbor and love one another. We are to love, not judge and condemn. I have read so many articles about the abuse the gay community takes: beatings, exclusion, disowned by their family, suicides…it is terrible. No matter what stand we take on the issue we are not to judge and condemn. As followers of Christ, we are to be known for our love and for treating everyone equally.

I personally am tired of the way the christian church has treated those who are LGBTQ. Whether they agree or disagree they should be treating everyone with love. For me, I have concluded that being gay is not a sin and I fully love and accept all people just as they are. I hope I can show that love and acceptance to others in some way.

I am tired of seeing the abuse, the exclusion and the discrimination against those who are LGBTQ. I pray that I can be a help by showing love and acceptance to those I meet who are LGBTQ and letting them know they are loved just as they are.

Following are a few good books I have read on the subject with links to Amazon:

** Is God a Gay Basher by Jan Liebegott

** God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines

** Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate by Justin Lee

** Unashamed: A Coming Out Guide for LGBTQ Christians by Amber Cantorna

** UnClobber: Rethinking Our Misuse of the Bible on Homosexuality by Colby Martin

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Thursday, January 20, 2022

The God That Turned Out To Not Be True!

By Mike Edwards

Decades ago, I was taught things about God that I couldn’t imagine would be true of a loving God. See here.  I can imagine some had no reason to doubt what authorities were teaching them, which eventually lead to leaving God or making God less a part of their life. Why follow a God you couldn’t respect. Question if what you hear doesn’t seem to be right what a loving God would truly be like. You may be right! These are the main beliefs that nagged at me that I became convinced couldn’t be true of a loving God:

That God created a place such as Hell for those who didn’t accept God in their life here on earth. We human wouldn’t even create such a place and consequences for our worst enemies.

What Does God Believe About Hell?

That God actually believes women were not as gifted as men leading in at worship setting or at home. What Does God Think About Women?

That God condemns gays for a choice they have no control over – being gay. Gays no more than straights choose control being attracted to the same or opposite gender. What Does God Believe About Gays?

That God only lets into heaven those who believe in and accept Jesus into their hearts. Half the world born never had a Bible or knew of Jesus. What Does God Think Of Non-Christian Religions?

That God controlled the minds and pens of the writers of the Bible. A loving God who created freedom can never act controlling. Don’t believe everything the Bible claims God did. What Does God Think About An Inspired Bible?

That God foreknows the future. If God already knows what choices we make, this denies the reality of freedom. God actually joins with us with all the joys and pain of an unknown future. What Does God Know About The Future?

That God is a mystery sometimes, because the Bible contributes immoral behaviors to God. This makes assumptions about the Bible and implies God can be a moral hypocrite – “do as I say not what I do.” What Does God Think About Being Labeled Mysterious Or Hypocritical?

I am grateful for the relationship I have with my Creator, but the emphasis on we are obligated to constantly tell God how great they are doesn’t seem natural or relational. I am convinced God doesn’t like to appear egotistical. What Does God Think About Being Told How Great They Are?

Most would agree the Bible says to forgive. To one’s surprise the Bible can also be interpreted to suggest forgiveness requires regret. It matters what we tell others, especially victims. What Does God Think About Forgiving The Guilty Who Deny Wrongdoing?

The God That Turned Out To Not Be True!

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com 

Thursday, October 21, 2021

What Does God Think About Being Labeled Mysterious Or Hypocritical?

By Mike Edwards

Believing God exists or doesn’t exist requires faith, but surely a loving Creator would love the way we were created to love. It isn’t too presumptuous to imagine what a loving God is like though our moral intuitions, our consciences. Christians may argue we should trust “biblical truths” about God, but differing interpretations exist for many moral issues. See here.  Also, we can’t prove if biblical writers always understood God perfectly or God controlled their thoughts.

Why would a Creator or parent create unless wanting a relationship?

The idea of a relational God wanting to be mysterious may only come from a Book. The mystery card is often played when one’s interpretation of God’s character is incompatible with most people’s idea of a loving God. Some rationalization is needed for their interpretation, since they believe God gives us our mind and conscience. The mystery card short circuits discussions about God’s true character. A mysterious God suggests God doesn’t prioritize a relationship.

Even the Bible doesn’t necessarily claim God is a mystery

God isn’t a mystery just because we can’t comprehend all plausible moral reasons how suffering and a good God can coexist. Isaiah 55:8-9 is frequently used to claim God sometimes is a mystery: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways…” This passage isn’t suggesting we cannot understand God. God exhorts us to forsake our wicked ways and thoughts (v.7) and turn to God’s higher, righteous ways and thoughts (vs. 8-9). Mystery in the NT often concerns the unknown about Jesus in the OT until NT times. Jesus only spoke in parables, when directness went in one ear and out the other, so one might consider the message in time. 

God surely can’t be hypocritical 

Only a perfect, loving God is worth believing in. Is love ever hypocritical? God can’t possibly be hypocritical. We don’t always know what perfect loves is, but hypocritical love is contrary to our moral intuitions of perfection. The mystery card – aka as God can act however hypocritical God wants – is played because of one’s interpretation. It is nonsensical to claim God is good but good is sometimes evil. If a trait claimed about God seem hypocritical – reconsider!

God can’t possibly be a mysterious, moral hypocrite!

Many condemn gays because of their understanding of a Book. It makes no sense why God would condemn gays when they can no more choose who they love than straights can. Just ask heterosexuals or homosexuals what sexual lusts they struggle with. Please don’t judge when you can’t be certain. I can’t imagine one would think – except because one deems their interpretation of a Book inspired – that a woman shouldn’t be the CEO, priest, pastor, etc. if more qualified than the man. Loving others like you want to be loved is true, human, godly love! True relational love cannot be mysterious or hypocritical. Neither can God!

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Thursday, August 12, 2021

What Does God Believe About Gays?

by Mike Edwards

Believing God exists or doesn’t exist requires faith, but it seems intuitive a loving Creator would love the way we were created to love. We can examine what a loving God is like though our moral intuitions, our consciences. Christians may argue we should trust “biblical truths” about God, but differing interpretations exist for many moral issues. See here. Also, we can’t prove if biblical writers always understood God perfectly. We aren’t always certain how to best love, but we know that we or a Creator ought to love others as we want to be loved.

What does the Bible really say about God and gays? 

Leviticus (18:22, 20:13) list unnatural male same sex activities as an abomination. Unnatural in OT times could be sex not for procreation. We can’t be sure what activity the writers had in mind. Are lesbians safe because nothing is said about same sex women activities? The OT also lists as abominations lying lips, arrogance, etc. Are straights screwed? The word “homosexual” doesn’t appear in some English translations before 1946.  In passages such as I Cor.6:9-10 and I Tim. 1:10 the translation often wasn’t homosexuals” but “boy molesters.” Big difference! And the passage says wrongdoers don’t inherit the kingdom of God. I guess we are all screwed! 

Many growing up in church only condemn gays out of devotion to the God of the Bible. Let’s assume it could be proven God controlled pens and minds of the writers so every word in the Bible came from God. The truth is literature requires interpretation, even if ever word written, edited, or translated was inspired by God. We mustn’t claim our interpretations are infallible when being wrong has tremendous consequences. Scholars, who accept Scriptures as authoritative, don’t agree the Bible condemns same-gender loving relationships. See here.

Why would anyone choose to be gay? 

How could a loving God possibly condemn gays when they can no more choose who they are attracted to than straights can? If you are a straight man, don’t you naturally have to fight not looking at naked women than men? Ask gays their battle! Who chooses to be gay when one has to hide their sexuality because of bigotry and hostility? The mental health damage is tremendous!

Parents often only condemn their gay children because of a supposed correct interpretation of a Book. It is impossible to feel loved and accepted when someone says “I love you but I hate your sin.” But we tell alcoholics we hate their sin! Hating homosexual sex is only loving if homosexual sex is sinful. Hating alcoholic behavior is loving because alcohol abuse really is harmful. A parent need not reject a gay child according to the Bible.

What do our moral intuitions, consciences tell us about God and gays?

My moral intuitions tell me that God is not bias against females, people of color, or gays. Shouldn’t we choose the least harmful view? We don’t know why one has feelings for the same sex or opposite sex. If you think there is a .0001% possibility that science proves sexual orientation isn’t a choice, why would we judge? It’s a myth that sexual choices are always the result of some trauma or rebellion in our lives. I am convinced the Bible is silent on monogamous same sex relationships, while supporting relationships that show love and concern for one another.

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Friday, April 9, 2021

Want to Become a Powerful LGBTQ Ally?

by James Finn

Do you have friends or loved ones who identify somewhere on the LGBTQ spectrum? Are they lesbian, gay, transgender, bisexual, or genderqueer? Do you ever think about how marginalized people sometimes have to fight to breathe through a toxic fog of othering?

Maybe you’re marginalized too? Are you Black, Latinx, or disabled? Have you thought about how marginalized identities intersect? About how Black transgender women, for example, get hit from all sides? Think about how racism, sexism and transphobia focus in one spot against one person at the same time.

Advocating for justice and inclusion often means forming alliances based on recognition of shared oppression, probably an obvious thing to say, but possibly less obvious in practice. 

, the publisher of Cultured on Medium, wants to get practical.

Let’s stick to the basics

She’s asked me to provide a list of resources allies can use to help fight for LGBTQ justice and inclusion. I’ve thought hard over the last couple of days about the best approach, and I’ve decided to stick to the basics. Rather than an exhaustive list, I’m offering a starter kit for people who want to become part of the solution.

I’m pretty sure that once you get started, your own efforts will direct you to the specific resources that fit your personal priorities.

How can you become part of the solution?

Solutions imply problems, problems lots of people don’t know exist. Given the paucity of LGBTQ representation in entertainment, people can get the wrong idea, as 

 points out in a recent essay on Medium. Christopher writes that for every upbeat Love Simon or Call Me By Your NameBoy Erased somewhere silently cries their pain.

We LGBTQ people want our stories to be real, relatable, and not inevitably tragic, but we know our allies don’t always understand that the positive stories they see in entertainment aren’t the FULL story.

So what can you do?

1. Educate yourself and raise your awareness

Paralleling the relatively scarce treatment of LGBTQ issues in entertainment, hard news treatment is pretty sketchy too. Cable news rarely tackles LGBTQ stories, and when they do they’re seldom complete. Newspapers and magazines sometimes feature stories, but you can’t rely on them for daily news. Kudos to the Huffington Post for having a queer beat, but you’ll only see it if you seek it out.

So why not be proactive?

If you want to be a powerful LGBTQ ally, make LGBTQ issues a regular part of your day. Take just a few minutes each day to scan queer Huffington Post or LGBTQ Nation or Pink News, which aggregate journalism about LGBTQ people and issues around the world.

2. Help LGBTQ youth. They’re hurting.

LGBTQ youth are particularly vulnerable. Statistics about bullying, mental crises, and suicide are alarming, probably much more alarming than you think. Even one supportive adult can make all the difference to an LGBTQ kid in crisis.

Can you be that one adult? Even if you can’t reach out one-on-one, you can still help.

I think about my friend Charlie who goes to work every day at a middle school in Detroit where he teaches math and science. Charlie is an unassuming hero, an out gay Black man with effeminate mannerisms and speech who holds his head high despite fierce pressure to hide.

Charlie is a role model and leader. He sponsored a GSA (gender and sexual alliance) club at his school years ago after an 8th grade girl came to him with stories about bullying and hate speech she lived with.

Do you work in a middle or high school?

Sponsoring a GSA is a powerful step allies can take to make a serious difference in the lives of LGBTQ kids. Studies show that schools with active GSAs report significant reductions in bullying, not just for LGBTQ students, but for all students.

GLSEN will help you help queer kids

Even if you can’t be a Charlie, because you don’t work in a school or because you don’t feel safe enough, you can still help. He turned to GLSEN to help students form a GSA. GLSEN engages with school staff and students, providing training, resource kits, and legal networking. Want to help GLSEN empower people like Charlie and his students? Find a local chapter, and take action.

The Trevor Project helps kids in crisis

Want to help kids in immediate need? The Trevor project runs a crisis line for LGBTQ youth who feel overwhelmed or suicidal. Trained counselors are available 24/7. The Trevor project needs volunteers and money to keep fighting for lives and mental health. Can you help them?

3. Think about LGBTQ seniors, who are often uniquely vulnerable

Given queer reality, especially for people who grew up in a less accepting era, many older LGBTQ people don’t have the extensive networks of friends and family that cis/straight people have. Queer seniors face all the same challenges of isolation and loneliness that seniors in general face, but often lack places where they can socialize and feel safe at the same time.

Many seniors who were out and proud in their younger days find themselves pushed back in the closet as they age, especially in retirement communities or assisted living facilities.

Want to help? Contact SAGE, an advocacy and service group that assists LGBTQ elders all over the United States.

4. Think about transgender and genderqueer people

Gender politics are HOT right now, and not in any good way. All over the English-speaking world, transgender and genderqueer people are taking a beating on the public stage, and those rhetorical beatings have caused real physical violence and furthered isolation for people who ask for little more than to live in peace.

Want to be a good ally to embattled trans people? It’s not that hard. Pronouns are easy, and so are other issues once you get used to them. And if you make a mistake now and then? Nobody’s gonna hate on you if you apologize and move on.

How easy is it to be a kind and thoughtful trans ally? Check out this simple guide from transequality.org.

5. Think about getting political

Many LGBTQ advocacy groups fight for change on the US political stage. The following three are perhaps the most well known:

  • National Center for Transgender Equality — “In the nation’s capital and throughout the country, NCTE works to replace disrespect, discrimination, and violence with empathy, opportunity, and justice.”
  • Human Rights Campaign (HRC) — “The Human Rights Campaign envisions a world where every member of the LGBTQ family has the freedom to live their truth without fear, and with equality under the law.”
  • GLAAD — “Leading the conversation. Shaping the media narrative. Changing the culture.”

Most LGBTQ rights groups have seen their share of controversy. Before supporting any group by donating or volunteering, you might want to make sure they align with your priorities. Here’s a much more complete list to choose from:

Be aware, take action, and join hands

Educating yourself and taking simple action to promote positive change can make you part of a powerful force for good. Othering and marginalization are sad human norms, but they aren’t inevitable. We can join hands and work together for equality and inclusion.

The resources above are trailheads, simple entry points into a forest of nurturing ideas.

I hope you find them valuable, and I hope they lead you even deeper down a path of genuine inclusivity and allyship.



Why Are Christians So Dogmatic?

by Mike Edwards Okay, I admit more than just Christians are dogmatic. It seems many people, regardless of beliefs, are unable to discuss th...