Living for God Outside the Walls of Religion. Done with Religion means we no longer follow the traditions and doctrines of religion, but live for God on a daily basis by the leading of the Holy Spirit.
This Post was inspired by a light reading of The Widening Of God’s Mercy – Sexuality Within The Bible Story God in the Bible condemns gays, but the father/son scholars don’t tackle the verses claimed to teach that God condemns gays. See here. The Hays imply even if God supposedly does condemn gays and that is the correct interpretation – God can change his mind to feel differently after what is recorded in the Bible. So, even if you believe the Bible teaches God condemns gays, that may not be God’s attitude today toward gays. Many believe the Bible suggests the husband is the leader of the wife which I doubt but anyway, God may change his mind in many circumstances. Since the Bible is used as a rule book in many situations, let’s use the Bible to suggest God can change his mind.
God changes their mind in biblical times, so how about now?
“And the Lord regretted that he had made Saul king over Israel.” [I Sam 15:35)
“And the Lord was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.” (Gen 6:6-7)
Many know the story of Moses getting God to compromise concerning sparing the disobedient. (Ex 32). When might God compromise with us today what we think the Bible claims in our situation?
Even God’s laws given are updated and changed
“I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not live.” (Ezek 20:25)
Ex 21:23-25 says “eye for eye” but Jesus updated (Matt 5:39)
Jesus changed the law regarding the Sabbath (Mk 2:27)
Exodus 20:24 allows sacrifice on any altar but that then changed to only one location (Deut 12:13-14). (p.55)
I don’t wish to suggest the Bible should be used as a rule/guide book what to do in your situation since interpretations are infallible, but even in the same culture and times biblical laws were updated depending upon circumstances. What you think the Bible commands you to do, might God sit down and discuss? I know this Post can be used to justify anyone’s evil behavior, but if you think God changes his mind on sexual abuse, think again!
How does the Bible guide us today?
I think Karl Barth is right: the theologian shouldn’t ask “What the apostles and prophets said, but what we must say on the basis of the apostles and prophets.” (p 4). This supports the idea that even in biblical times God changed his mind and updated laws. Even if you believe the Bible’s writers were never wrong what God thought and that God condemns gays, please consider what God may say today in your relationships with gays, your partner, etc. You may believe the Bible commands capital punishment, but is that what God thinks today in your situation and what you claim about God to others? Using the Bible as a rule book is complicated.
Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like
Christian leaders of companies or religious institutes often claim they are guided or adhere to biblical principles. This implies biblical understandings are agreed upon by all who follow the Bible, and non-followers have less than ideal morals. Supposed biblical truths have harmed billions of people – women, gays, non-Christians.
The Bible can’t be the sole determinant of truth
Ancient literature subject to interpretation cannot be the definitive word on truth. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here. See here.See here. Gays are often condemned and women’s leadership roles are limited, despite their gifts, in God’s name. It is suggested a fiery torturous afterlife awaits infidels. Is this how a loving God would love? A Creator surely loves the way creatures intuitively think they ought to love. Please consider that your interpretation isn’t necessarily biblical or more moral.
Truths aren’t hidden in a Book
Self-evident rights aren’t hidden in the Bible or any Book. We all have an inborn sense of good and evil. No reasonable human being doesn’t respect the universal compulsion to treat others like we want to be treated. Who but the guilty don’t agree sexual abuse or murder is evil. We must have open discussions which laws are the most caring for the greater good concerning non-universal matters such as immigration or climate policies. Personal beliefs about God can be shared in the public arena without imposing or assuming we all agree what biblical truths are.
Belief in God or unbelief is not an excuse for chaos
Politicians often claim or imply that our rights are given by God. Any such belief is personal not universal and should be stated so. Self-evident rights may be found in a Book or natural law, as we all have an inborn sense of good and evil. Rational beings know sexual abuse is evil. We can though have healthy debates what policies are for the greater good. Christians can share their personal beliefs in the public arena without imposing or assuming all agree what biblical values are.
What language did Jesus use in personally representing God?
Jesus did not come to overthrow Roman rule to establish a Christian nation. Jesus seemed to understand freedom of personal beliefs is necessary for authenticity, the highest good in personal relationships or a relationship with God. Jesus never told anyone to take a knee and express certain beliefs to be saved. See here. When Jesus was asked what were the greatest commandments, He said to start loving God and your neighbor as yourself (Mt. 22:34-40). Jesus understood loving God influences and inspires loving others to the fullest. Jesus told the woman who had committed adultery: “go now, and leave your life of sin” (John 8). Sin destroys and doesn’t lead to personal happiness in the long-run! God desires to help avoids regrets in this life.
How can Christian express their views of God in the public arena
We can avoid accusations of Christian nationalism by the words we use. Jesus didn’t come to establish a Christian nation. You may personally believe your rights come from God, but not all believe in or have a relationship with God. Respect the beliefs of others through your words. And rights don’t come from man/woman (Government) either. Don’t come off pushing God or your own beliefs on others. Regardless of beliefs, until we all ask ourselves “am I acting toward others like I want to be treated,” we are destined to fail. I would argue that natural law and biblical law, if we could assume perfect understanding of God, are surely one and the same. We can at times express our beliefs about God to others and how personally God encourages us to carry out our mission to treat others well. But we can all discuss what is loving referring to personal beliefs!
Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com
Most are familiar with Bible stories including David and Goliath and Jonah shallowed by a whale. What motivated me to write this post was becoming even more aware of disturbing divine behaviors in the older testament. See here. You may not want to advise your children to read the entire Older Testament. Stay with me until we get to below stories of Noah/Flood and Jonah.
Don’t read these Bible passages to children!
We have every right to question if biblical writers/editors always understood God perfectly. There are many disturbing portrayals of God in the Bible. Exodus 20:1 says God spoke: “anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death” (Ex 21:17). I would be dead! God didn’t dictate words to the writers. “God said” is recording hundreds of times in the Bible. This is likely a figure of speech expressing inner impressions or understandings about God written down – right or wrong.
God supposedly even commanded the genocide of all Amalekites, including women, children, infants, and animals (I Sam 15:2-3). God kills Uzzah for putting his hand out to balance the Ark from falling (2 Sam 6:7), yet God is silent when Mighty King David committed adultery and had Bathsheba’s husband killed (2 Sam 11:14). You better hope God is having a good day!
Did God control the thoughts of biblical writers?
You can’t prove and it’s doubtful a loving God controlled the mental impressions of writers’ words recorded. Controlling love is an oxymoron. God doesn’t control our world views. The Israelites thought God controlled the natural world causing famines to punish or giving victory or defeat in battle. Today most don’t think God causes tsunamis and other natural disasters. Jesus didn’t blame tragedies by God as rewarding the righteous and punishing the unfaithful (Lk 13:1-5). So, we are okay to question if certain stories accurately portray God. It is not heresy to challenge if the writers’ understandings of God are contradictory of a loving God according to our moral intuitions. We were surely created to love the way the Creator loves.
Noah, the Flood, and God drowning practically the entire human race
I admit I love David kicking bully Goliath’s ass. But you may wonder why God drowned the entire human race except Noah and family, including children and infants (Gen. 7:23). Keep in mind Genesis talks about a magical tree of good and evil and talking snakes. A Global Flood could be a literary device to illustrate the destructiveness of human versus God’s ways. Maybe the writers used an analogy of a Flood and drowning because their world view including God controlling the natural world. I might not read the Flood story to young children but wait to explain the above that maybe God didn’t really drown practically the entire human race. Personally, I wouldn’t use a drowning analogy to portray God’s character.
Did a whale really swallow Jonah?
I suppose most kids won’t avoid water or the ocean when reading this story. Nevertheless, how might you explain such a story to younger children if they ask. Certain evidence suggests Jonah wasn’t really shallowed by a whale. The gullet of a whale is too small to swallow an adult. The gastric juices and lack of oxygen would not sustain human life for days such as Jonah writing a poem while inside the whale (Eric Seibert ). Ninevah was a real city but this story maybe wasn’t meant to be taken literally. Read the full story. It may be trying to illustrate God had a right to show compassion. Jonah’s enthusiasm for the destruction of his enemies was misguided.
So, how do I read the Older Testament to my children?
It’s understandable choosing to not share many of the Bible stories with children. Young children aren’t always equipped to understand when stories aren’t meant to be taken literally. The Bible is God’s story beginning with Israel and culminating with the life of Jesus that we don’t possess in any other document. God may have inspired the writers to write but didn’t necessarily approve of everything written about God. When reading the Bible, question and contemplate what a loving God is really like. Enjoy what God is trying to reveal to you about your Creator and how to treat others. Interpretations about God’s love toward others, that don’t match how you know you ought to love your neighbor, may be amiss. A Book must not replace our relationship with God and common moral sense.
Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com
I think the Bible can become an idol depending on one’s view of the Bible. See here. We are encouraged to have a biblical business, family, life, church, or marriage. But we can’t prove God dictated or controlled the biblical writers’ pens or reeds (I can google) to record God’s thoughts perfectly. The Bible is God’s story beginning with Israel and culminating with the life of Jesus that we don’t possess in any other document, but it is important to read the Bible with a questioning and open spirit. Do we really want biblical marriages?
In the Bible marriage was between two men
In the Bible marriage was typically a contract between two men – the father of the man and the father of the woman. A payment was often made by the father of the woman (you guessed it) to the father of the man. Also, there was no Hebrew word for “husband,” or “wife.” These words were added in translations of the Bible later. See here. In a patriarchal culture a woman was basically viewed as property – first to her father and then to the man given to by the father. Was this really God’s ideal? I’m not a woman, but I doubt women want to go back to biblical marriages must less before they could vote!
Then, in the Bible marriage often was not between just one man and one woman
It was a very common marital arrangement in the Old Testament for men to have multiple wives. Most are familiar with the stories of two supposed spiritual giants in the Old Testament – Kings David and Solomon. Who hasn’t heard David was a man after God’s own heart. Not always the God I know! Solomon had hundreds of women at his disposal. Polygamy was never condemned in the Bible. Do we really want to go back to biblical marriages? My wife would argue one husband is enough of a cross/burden to carry!
In the Bible marriage was more about procreating than romantic love
There is not a Hebrew word for husband, wife, or even marriage. You don’t read of marriage ceremonies or honeymoons. In Hebrew it’s more about the man “taking” the woman. You never of course read a woman taking a man. An example of this is Genesis 29:23 – “he (Laban) took his daughter Leah and brought her to Jacob, and Jacob made love to her.” It may sound like it but this wasn’t the father giving the daughter for prostitution. One could argue in the Bible the woman was more like property given to the man to have children and build his legacy. If this is your cup of tea, you are reading the wrong blog.
What if a woman’s man dies?
We have laws and stories in the Bible where men were required to impregnate his sister-in-law if her man died. (Deut. 25:5). I don’t read where the woman has any say so in the matter, in case she didn’t want to have a child with her brother-in-law. My wife’s sisters probably feel the same way.
Even in the New Testament women had few rights
It doesn’t seem much changed from OT times to when Jesus lived. When Jesus advised that a man could only divorce a woman for adulterous reasons, the disciples said “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” (Mt. 19:9-10). They seemed to think marriage is about men’s rights. Also, though Jesus didn’t exactly say so, you mean to tell me Jesus didn’t think women could divorce for the same reason? This passage has multiple interpretations, so we are free to speculate what an ideal marriage is in God’s eyes.
What kind of marriage does God want?
Personally, I don’t want anything to do with biblical marriages. And biblical marriages didn’t happen in churches administered by a preacher-type. The wife and I need a redo. Should we stop this practice? I admit I can’t read God’s mind. But somehow, I know how I ought to treat others especially women. I don’t want any father telling a woman who she must marry for money. I certainly don’t want my parents telling me who to marry. They struck out. I have been married 41 years with three great kids. Turns out she is the saint, not their beloved son. Read the Bible for possible wisdom, but seek to have a godly marriage instead of a biblical marriage.
Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found atWhat God May Really Be Like He can be contacted by email at:medwar2@gmail.com
It’s frustrating when I hear Christians, especially leaders, claim we must be guided by biblical principles. They assume their interpretation is correct. It is common to hear one argue “The Bible says” without adding “according to my understanding.” The truth is contrary biblical interpretations exist for many moral issues. Hell, we can’t even agree on if there is a literal Hell according to the Bible. See here.
It matters what we claim “biblical truths are!
Biblical scholars don’t agree the Bible condemns same-gender loving relationships. It is claimed God condemns gays, when they have no choice in attractions as straights. A biblical worldview doesn’t necessarily condemn gays. See here. Try being gay and having a relationship with God when told “we love you but hate your sin.” Many claim the Bible says that women can’t fulfill the same roles as men in the worship or home setting. This mentality can filter down to our wives, daughters, and friends and stifle their gifts. Scholars don’t agree that Paul, a main writer of the New Testament, thought roles should be chosen based on gender than gifts. See here.
Truths aren’t hidden in a Book
Self-evident rights aren’t hidden in the Bible or any Book. We all have an inborn sense of good and evil. No reasonable human being doesn’t respect the universal compulsion to treat others like we want to be treated. Who but the guilty don’t agree sexual abuse or murder is evil. We must have open discussions which laws are the most caring for the greater good concerning non-universal matters such as immigration or climate policies. Personal beliefs about God can be shared in the public arena without imposing or assuming we all agree what biblical truths are.
Uncertainty can lead to acting more loving
Continually evaluating the most loving approach is better than claiming certainty and being wrong. See here. Please stop demonizing by moralizing. God-followers must stop claiming their supposed biblical truth is morally superior among the religious or non-religious. God may not speak to us demonstratively out of love. What we do with the communication we have, then lack of communication, may be the bigger challenge. Jesus had a 24-7 relationship with twelve men, yet they struggled to believe His words in person. Jesus’ influence seemed greater after He left this world. The road traveled of learning, reflecting, and not being coerced may best lead to lasting convictions and more meaningful relationships.
Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com
Well-meaning people, especially politicians who represent those who believe in a God and those that don’t, say things like “we need to get back to biblical truths” as a nation.” But those who appreciate the Bible don’t all agree what the Bible claims God thinks about gays, women, destiny of unbelievers, etc. Different interpretations of the Bible are normal. We need to find a way to speak of our personal beliefs without assuming all are necessarily committed to the Bible, God, or agree what the Bible claims about God.
Belief in God or unbelief is not an excuse for chaos
Politicians often claim or imply that our rights are given by God. Any such belief is personal not universal, or one is claiming God doesn’t desire a mutual relationship. Self-evident rights may be found in a Book or natural law, as we all have an inborn sense of good and evil. No rational being argues sexual abuse isn’t evil. We can though have healthy debates what climate policies are for the greater good. We can share our personal beliefs in God and other matters in the public arena without imposing or assuming we all agree what biblical values are.
Biblical truths are debatable
Hell is often used in religion circles to scare one into a commitment to God. Some commitment if just looking to avoid burning forever after death! Biblical scholars and laypeople don’t agree what the Bible says on Hell. Some argue unbelievers burn in Hell after death. Others believe the Bible reveals all when meeting God will become convinced their Creator is loving and desire to live for eternity with God. Circumstances here on earth may prevent such belief.
Religious folks often claim views contrary to their own views aren’t biblical. But even if you believe the Bible is inspired by God, the Bible requires interpretation. It is often said we best know God according to “biblical truths.” The truth is contrary biblical interpretations exist for many moral issues. No one can claim their truth is God’s truth according to the Bible. Yes, the Bible says murder is wrong but that is an obvious truth to those that don’t have a Bible.
Insisting on biblical truths often leads to misrepresenting God
It’s logical to suggest we can’t always be certain what an invisible, inaudibly God thinks, but supposed certainty has led to justifying slavery and other atrocities. Certainty has led to condemning gays, though scholars who accept Scriptures as authoritative, don’t agree the Bible disapproves of same-gender loving, monogamous, consensual relationships. Women, though gifted, are denied entrance into the priesthood or pastorate in God’s name. Often uncertainty, not certainty about God, protects against imposing possible false beliefs about God. God surely is able to reveal their Likeness to individuals who desire a relationship.
Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com
We who are part of the Christian faith have a lot of terminology we use, but often do not think about the real meaning. Rather than continue to use some of these phrases, we should stop and think about what we really mean.
If you have been around church very long, one such phrase you have probably heard is we want to live a ‘biblical life’ or ‘we are a biblical church’. At first this sounds good and spiritual, but after thinking about it a little, these are a couple of the phrases we may want to reconsider.
What Do We Mean by Biblical Living?
The Bible can be very confusing and sometimes mentions ways of life that do not seem very Christ-like. Biblical living can also seem very different from the life of Jesus. By biblical living, I am talking about reading the Bible with the thought that every written word is literal, inerrant and directly from the hand of God, no questions asked. It also means we read the Bible based on modern times and do not take into effect that customs, words and times have changed over the centuries.
Biblical living often means we follow a pastor who we look to as a middle man or woman between God and us. We take the pastor’s interpretations and views without really thinking for ourselves.
Biblical living has led to slavery, murder, the dark ages, witch hunts, the crusades and various forms of hatred, exclusion and discrimination.
Biblical living can vary according to church doctrine and personal interpretation, which has led to thousands of different denominations. This of course leads to division among the brethren.
Organizations such as the KKK came into being, with its hatred and discrimination against people of color partly due to what was read in the Bible. Some information on the KKK and Christianity was listed at gotquestions.org and you can read about it at this link.
Another issue that can be found in the Bible is the acceptance of slavery. Christianity Today ran an article discussing slavery which can be read at this link.
Living a biblical life can easily lead to discrimination against women. Women were considered property in the middle east and had no individual rights. Even in our world today, at one-point women did not have the rights that men had, and still endure many inequalities to this day.
Photo by Giacomo Ferroni on Unsplash
Biblical living required that a woman caught in adultery be stoned.
Biblical living required a woman who was not a virgin on her wedding night to be executed.
Biblical living can lead to the killing of children. We read passages about how children should be killed for doing certain things, such as in Leviticus where it is written that if a child is rebellious, he should be stoned.
Biblical living required people abstain from certain foods and fabrics, it restricted what people could do on certain days and a host of other rules and laws.
There are passages that condone having multiple wives, restrict women from teaching in the institutional church and that discriminate against those who are LGBTQ.
Clearly, biblical living can take effort on our part in trying to interpret and follow each Bible verse literally. Of course, the problem is which interpretation or which doctrine do we determine to be the correct one?
Biblical Living Seems So Hateful
So often the religious world seems to be so hateful toward those who are different. Religion says do not associate or accept those that do not agree or measure up; stay away from those who are sinful and unworthy.
We often read that God told the Israelites to completely wipe out and destroy certain groups of people due to the way they acted or believed.
I personally think God is highly misrepresented in the Bible, especially the Old Testament. I think many times when men wrote that God said this or that, it was more of what they wanted to do rather than God actually telling them to do such horrible acts. They would do what they wanted, then say God told them to do it.
Should We Disregard the Bible
By saying all this, does that mean the Bible is not important? Should we ignore it and stop reading it? Of course not. The Bible is inspired and written by men who experienced God and walked with Jesus. The Holy Spirit can enlighten the words written and can lead us to the Living Word of God who is Jesus. The Bible is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness.
The problem is when we elevate the Bible to being equal to God or make it more important than the Spirit who lives within us. Many people seem to think of the trinity as the Father, Son and Holy Bible.
When we think about all the killing, discrimination and injustices that are done based on people’s interpretation of the Bible, we should begin to question why this is. Could it be that biblical living really is not what we want? I believe there is a better way of living our lives for God, and that is Christ-like living.
What is Christ-like Living?
Christ-like living is following the example of Jesus. We can find out how Jesus lived and treated people as we read the gospels in the Bible. Rather than living by man’s doctrine and interpretations, or by exact adherence to biblical verses, we look to the Holy Spirit who lives within us. The Bible can be very helpful in how we live and how we love God and others when the Spirit reveals the truth to us.
Photo by Jon Tyson on Unsplash
We know that Christ-like living showed mercy and grace to the woman caught in adultery. We also know that Jesus did not ignore or look down upon women. He associated with them and treated them as equals.
We know that Christ-like living did not murder.
We know that Christ-like living provides freedom.
We know that Christ-like living does not judge, condemn, discriminate nor exclude.
In direct opposition to biblical living, Christ-like living puts all the effort on Christ. Jesus said to take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart and you will find rest for your souls.
We do not hear very much taught about the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus seems to contradict many of the biblical sayings during this teaching. Jesus often said ‘you have heard that it was said this or that, but I tell you this’. Jesus was saying the he had authority over the written word. Of course, we know from John 1:1 and 1:14 that Jesus is the Word of God. The Bible is a written account about God, but does not have the power and authority of Jesus who is the Word of God.
The Bible contains human testimony about how God works in the world, but it is not God’s inerrant Word. The Bible points beyond itself to God, and in the New Testament, to the God revealed in Jesus. The Bible even claims that Jesus is the Word of God, not the Bible itself.
Jesus warned people about elevating the Bible above himself. “You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that testify on my behalf. Yet you refuse to come to me to have life.”
In Conclusion
Jesus came into the world for the purpose of showing us what God is really like. The way Jesus lived seems like such a contradiction to some of the ways of biblical living we see in our world. Jesus showed us that God is love by the way he loved and accepted people. The same people that many in the religious world condemned, would not associate with and found completely unworthy to be loved.
Christ-like living is based on love. Jesus said to love God and love one another. Since we have the Spirit of God living within us, we know we can act from love in how we treat one another.
In Christ, we can be free from biblical living to live a Christ-like life because of the grace of God. We do this by following the leading and guidance of the Holy Spirit who lives within us.
Christ-like living is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. This is certainly a better way to live and follow Jesus compared to some of the biblical ways we have been taught.
Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com
