Getting Saved Isn’t About Going to Heaven or Hell!

By Mike Edwards

I wrote recently here  what might be the greatest misunderstanding about God and getting saved. Christians often emphasize the main message about God and the Bible is avoiding hell and getting to heaven by saying the sinner’s prayer: “God, forgive me for my sins and thank you for dying on the Cross to pay the price for my wrongdoing.” No such prayer is found in the Bible. Recently, I failed to include the greatest objection below to what I am claiming – that the Apostle Paul, who wrote a lot of the New Testament, supposedly spoke of something similar to the sinner’s prayer. It is important because we may be misrepresenting God’s main message to us.

The main message can’t be about avoiding Hell 

I bet if you ask most non-church people what church people say is important about the Christian faith, they will talk about getting saved to go to heaven to avoid hell. The main message can’t be about Hell which doesn’t literally exist. See 12 Reasons To Believe Hell Is A Myth! There is no word in Hebrew or Greek for “hell,” only possibly words used as metaphors to illustrate that spiritual death is as tragic as physical death. The Apostle Paul who wrote most of the NT never refers to Hell. No prophet in the OT warned of Hell as a consequence for behaviors here on earth.

What did Jesus say about eternal life? 

Jesus never spoke of something similar to the sinner’s prayer to make others feel secure about the afterlife. True, he couldn’t talk about the purpose of the Cross since hadn’t happen, but Jesus message seem to be more about the here and now, not trying to terrify you about the afterlife. When Jesus was asked how to have eternal life, Jesus didn’t speak about a physical destiny but life here on earth. (Lk.10:25-37) Jesus simply answered the question “love God and your neighbor,” speaking more about the quality than quantity of life. Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife.

When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. The main message to the disciples was living a life worth living. When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees, pray, and ask for forgiveness! Jesus encouraged loving God because Jesus knew that leads to loving others.  The above interactions are like when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. He might never see her again. Where was Jesus evangelical spiel?

Didn’t Paul though preach repent to avoid punishment?

It is argued that Paul did say “believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rm 10:9) Paul recognized Jesus’ death and resurrection, but Jesus’ sacrifice was to draw attention to the Good News already proclaimed by Paul – God’s desire to empower unselfish living. Paul preached about the Kingdom of God being here (Acts). Paul did say “the wages of sin is death.” (Rm. 6:23) But Paul is speaking of spiritual death because Paul is still alive though sin has put him to death. (Rm. 7:11) Paul mentions Heaven twice in Romans, yet says nothing about Jesus dying so we can go to Heaven (Rm. 1:18, 10:6).

God wasn’t so pissed to require Jesus’ death than yours

To insist God required Jesus be murdered on the Cross in place of you isn’t Godly or parental love. Google “theological views of Jesus’ death” for many interpretations about Jesus’ death. Did Jesus and the Romans have no choice but to murder Jesus for an unjust cause? Soldiers die for one another because of a cause they believe in. Jesus thought his message was worth dying for. Jesus accepting death than powering over others may be the reason billions have been influenced to live unselfishly. Jesus wanted to change our attitude about God, not to change God’s attitude toward us. What kind of God sees how the world has turned out and doesn’t just say the Hell with it, but instead enters such a world to experience underserved suffering via the Cross to inspire and relate? 

What really is God’s salvation?

Jesus spoke of a life, worth living, empowered by God, for your good and those you have relationships with. I believe Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as deep down you wish you could. I get help from God in pursuing a life with less regrets, of being the husband, father, friend, and man I truly want to be. It’s on God to come through for you if you choose to follow. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us. God’s influence, though invisible, can be the same as a parent who has left this earth that you believed loved you to the fullest. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now with God’s help – a path toward great relationships.  

Getting Saved Isn’t About Going To Heaven Or Hell!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com 

What Is Main Message about Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?

By Mike Edwards

Hell is certainly a message Christians get wrong. I am convinced a literal Hell is a biblical myth.  See here.  We get wrong that God thinks women can’t serve in the same religious or marriage roles that men can. Another myth. See here. Also, we get wrong that God condemns gays according to the Bible. Another myth. See here. But the biggest myth may be that God’s main message according to the Bible is that salvation is about going to Heaven or Hell rather than how to live life here on earth. People reject God based on claims about hell, women, or gays. But it is so important to know that God cares about you here and now and not about just the afterlife.

The main message isn’t about a literal Hell somewhere other than on earth

Gehenna, the Greek word translated as Hell in the New Testament, was the name of a real valley near Jerusalem with a history of terrible, ending slaughter.  Gehenna is best translated Gehenna just as Mount Everest is best translated Mount Everest. There is no word in Hebrew or Greek for “hell.” Jesus used Gehenna to illustrate that spiritual death is as tragic as physical death. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible biblically or morally.   See here.  See here. 

The main message isn’t about God saving us to enter Heaven away from Earth 

Jesus taught as if God’s Kingdom was near, not coming in distant future. “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mk 9:1) The Good News throughout the Gospels refers to a Kingdom here on earth now. The kingdom of God “has come upon you” (Mt 12:28) and “is in your midst.” (Lk 17:21) The word “heaven” appears the most in the Gospel of Matthew. The Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a place to go after life on earth. Jesus sought to bring heavenly love to earth – “on earth as in heaven.”

What about eternal life?

Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. (Lk.10:25-37). Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven away from this Earth. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor. “Eternal” appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living being a loving life empowered by God. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now – a path toward great relationships.

What did the earliest Gospel says how Jesus spoke to others? 

I read through the Gospel of Mark to see what Jesus’ main message was to others. Mark’s Gospel is considered the earliest written from which Matthew and Luke cited. In all the Gospels Jesus never advises to preach to the masses to save them from Hell in the afterlife. Jesus sought to help others avoid hell here on earth. Sin is destructive. It has natural consequences.

• When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. The main message to the disciples was living a life worth living.
• People were bringing children to Jesus and he said “anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” (Mark 10:15) The kingdom of God was not a future home but a current reality. Jesus has just said “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mark 9:1)
• A rich person asked how to have eternal life. Jesus said sell everything and follow me. (Mark 10: 17-31) Surely Jesus’ point was to love people more than possessions. What does following Jesus mean? When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees and say a prayer!
• The above interactions are like when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. Where was his evangelical spiel. He might never see her again! Apparently, Jesus came to encourage living a loving life toward others and yourself.

Didn’t Paul though preach repent to avoid punishment? 

The Apostle Paul did say “believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rm 10:9) Paul recognized Jesus’ death and resurrection, but Jesus’ sacrifice was to draw attention to the Good News already proclaimed by Paul – God’s desire to empower unselfish living. Paul preached about the Kingdom of God being here (Acts). Paul did say “the wages of sin is death.” (Rm. 6:23) But Paul is speaking of spiritual death because Paul is still alive though sin has put him to death (Rm. 7:11). Paul mentions Heaven twice in Romans, yet says nothing about Jesus dying so we can go to Heaven (Rm. 1:18, 10:6). The Apostle Paul who wrote most of the NT never refers to Hell. No prophet in the OT warned of Hell as a consequence for behaviors here on earth.

What about life after death?

We don’t know exactly what happens after life here on earth. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come. It is reasonable to believe a loving God can choose to take forever in this life and the life to come to save everyone from themselves. It is possible to interpret the Bible as claiming all eventually go to be with God after death.  See here.

God only seeks to inspire you to avoid a life full of regrets

We are told the message of the Bible is Jesus coming to give you salvation to save you from Hell so you could enter Heaven. I believe Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself now. You may be different than me, but I get help from God in pursuing a life not full of regrets. Try it! It’s on God to come through for you if you choose to follow. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us.  If you refuse to love, you may end up a lonely, regretful soul.

What Is Main Message About Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Who Goes To Heaven?

By Mike Edwards

I don’t believe the main message of the Bible and Jesus is about saving you from Hell so you can enter Heaven, but most of us wonder what happens after death. I am convinced Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself here on earth. Jesus seemed more focused on life here on earth than life after death. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us (John 16), not waiting to be rescued from earth to heaven. Besides, the Bible’s message couldn’t be about avoiding Hell.

Hell is morally and biblically impossible! 

Many who believe God exist suggest God has given us moral intuitions to discern evil from good. We don’t need a Book to know sexual abuse or murder is wrong. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible morally or biblically. See here. See here. Humans wouldn’t even create such a place for our enemies. God or humans can’t possibly be happy in heaven if loved ones are tormented after death forever.

The Bible might even declare all go to heaven

It is suggested by many religious leaders that according to the Bible some go to hell and some go to heaven, though doubtful a literal Hell exist. Some may suggest that some will simply die and others go to heaven. The problem is the Bible, being literature, requires interpretation. It is possible to interpret the Bible as claiming all eventually go to be with God after death.  See here.

What did Jesus say about heaven or eternal life?

The word “heaven” appears the most in the Gospel of Matthew. The Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a place to go after life on earth. Jesus sought to bring heavenly love to earth – “on earth as in heaven.” Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37). The emphasis appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living being a loving life empowered by God. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help!

More of what Jesus said through the eyes of Mark

Most Christians believe to understand Jesus is to understand God. I read through the Gospel of Mark to see what Jesus’ message was to others. Mark’s Gospel is considered the earliest written from which Matthew and Luke cited. In all the Gospels Jesus never advises to preach to the masses to save them from Hell in the afterlife. Jesus seemingly sought to help others avoid hell here on earth. Sin is destructive. It has natural consequences.

• When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. I don’t see any message to the disciples other than living a life worth living.
• Jesus said “Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.” (Mark 3:35) Being close to God or Jesus isn’t claiming certain beliefs or traditions; Jesus simply encouraged actions that lead to loving others as yourself. “Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all.” (Mark 9:35)
• People were bringing children to Jesus and he said “anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” (Mark 10:15) The kingdom of God was not a future home but a current reality. Jesus has just said “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mark 9:1)
• A rich person asked how to have eternal life. Jesus said sell everything and follow me. (Mark 10: 17-31) Surely Jesus’ point was to love people more than possessions. What does following Jesus mean? When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees and say a prayer!
• The above interactions are similar to when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. Where was his evangelical spiel. He might never see her again! Apparently, Jesus came to encourage living a loving life toward others and yourself.

Why not live like hell here on earth?

One may think that if Hell isn’t a reality and who knows about Heaven – why not live our sinful fantasies? I experience such actions end up in misery. I know I am a better husband, father, and friend because of God’s influence. God only wants to help you become the person you deep down desire to come. We will fail but God is quick to forgive and help us to get back up. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Decide on short or long-term happiness. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come. 

What’s next in afterlife?

The Bible suggests, whether having faith here on earth or not, all will be judged. After death God may bring to memory actions of betrayal and how it felt to their victims. The cleansing and educative effect may take longer for some than others. Justice from a fair, merciful God is possible despite people being given a second chance after death. We don’t know exactly what happens after life here on earth. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do. It is just as reasonable, if not more reasonable, to believe a loving God can choose to take forever in this life and the life to come to save everyone from themselves.

Who Goes To Heaven?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Can I Still Be In With God If Doubt God, Jesus, The Bible, Afterlife?

By Mike Edwards

You may not want to read this Post if you never question or doubt if God is real, if everything the Bible claims about God is true, and you are convinced hell or heaven is a certainty. For some though it is normal to struggle to believe in an invisible God, to wonder if Jesus really resurrected from the dead since they weren’t there. No one can prove if there is really an afterlife after death. God never informed Old Testament writers of such a place. See here. Some may have questions after hearing different opinions in biblical scholarship. Many didn’t grow up with religious teaching and so rightly wonder claims made by religious folks. Is there a reason to follow God with so many doubts or questions?

What if I am not sure the stories of Jesus resurrected from the dead are true?

I currently am convinced Jesus’ resurrection isn’t legend and has historical verification, but others may not. I don’t believe God hates me if I change my mind. Jesus’ disciples didn’t believe Jesus was coming back from the dead, despite witnessing Jesus’ miracles beforehand, until seeking Jesus after his death with their own eyes. I would like to think many of us seeing a man or woman coming back from the grave, after killed on a cross, would be convinced.  I have a hunch God cares the most that you believe in the possibility of a loving God to begin a faith journey.

Who was Jesus really?

One may read, if not reading only conservation Christian viewpoints, that the Jesus’ sayings for accuracy in the Gospels has many problems. After all, the biblical writers wrote 40 years later what Jesus supposedly said through oral traditions handed down. You should read what my kids claim I said decades ago! Maybe it doesn’t matter if the biblical writers 40 years later recorded Jesus’ words exactly. Today, we take things so literally. Maybe back in NT times, they were writing not for historical accuracy but weaving a story about what they thought Jesus was trying to teach (the meaning behind the text).

Does the Bible always get God right?

Ever read the Bible closely. Claims made about God don’t seem like a loving God. Leaders tout that God inspired/approved all written in the Bible, yet some actions contributed to God by the writers make no moral sense. Unfortunately, newcomers will be directed to read the Bible and be horrified reading about some of God’s supposed actions. Rationalizations are given to explain such actions about God to protect God’s inspiration of the Bible (writers understood God perfectly). I suggest instead considering if biblical writers always understood God correctly.  See here.

Is following God worth it with so many questions?

I am convinced living a godly life is worth it, even if God doesn’t exist. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! You may have fun but your loved ones won’t. God only wants to help pursuing a life not full of regrets. Personally, following what I believe a loving God to be like has inspired and encouraged me to be the person I desire to be. The journey is worth it. Most are convinced Jesus was a very real person who lived in the first century. Let’s debate his teachings. We are often told the main message of the Bible is Jesus coming to save you from Hell. I am convinced Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself here on earth. What do we have to lose treating one another like we want to be treated?

Can I Still Be In With God If Doubt God, Jesus, The Bible, Afterlife?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com 

Becoming a Religious Heretic – Part 1

 by Jim Gordon

Yes, I admit it. I have become a religious heretic. So, what is a heretic? According to the dictionary, it is a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted; the formal denial or doubt of a core doctrine of the Christian faith as defined by one or more of the Christian churches.

First let me say, the following are my thoughts and opinions. I am not saying I am right or wrong, but is where I am at now. I have changed my views over the past several years, and I will most likely change my views over the next several years. We are all entitled to our opinions and we should accept each other with the opinions we have. We certainly will not all agree.

After spending nearly sixty years in the institutional church (including from the time my parents took me as a baby and young child), my wife and I left the organization because we no longer felt we could completely agree with many of the church doctrines and generally accepted ways of the church. What led up to this decision was the many years within the church that taught me some things that I finally had to question.

I remember I went to church whenever the doors were open. I felt that I was going to God’s house and the Spirit may fall during a service and I did not want to miss it. I felt the pastor was well trained in spiritual matters and he was the middleman between God and me. I looked to the pastor for all the answers and to teach me more about God and what I should be doing.

Obviously, I believed that Christianity was the only way to know God and to be a true follower of Jesus. I always thought that Jesus came to start a new religion that would be the only correct way to follow him and only those who followed that religion would be saved.

I always held the Bible in very high regard. I felt it was dictated by God to humans, who carefully wrote everything down so we would have a perfect book about God. It was a love story and a rule book that would guide us each day of our lives. I believed the Bible was the true, inerrant and perfect word of God and it was clear on what it said.

I was one who believed people needed to get right with God or they would end up in Hell after they passed from this earth. Hell was created for the Devil and his angels, but people who rejected God would end up there also. Hell was also a great way to make people afraid enough to make a decision for Christ and boost church attendance.

How many times have we been told that God is our father, a male figure sitting on a throne in Heaven watching down on us, just waiting for us to mess up so he can punish us. If God did not see Jesus in us, then we were all doomed. Even Jesus called him father, so what else could he be?

Now, after becoming totally unsatisfied with what I had always been taught, I started to ask questions and seek answers from someone other than the pastor. I found books and podcasts of others who had other interpretations and views that really made sense. I found many people who had left the institution and were asking questions and finding answers other than the traditional ones the church always taught.

I came to see that church is not God’s house after-all, and the Spirit does not fall at specific places or at certain times. We the people are the church. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit who came to live within us once and for all. The Kingdom of God is within us. The church as we know it is just a building where people meet to fellowship and learn about God, but it is not necessary to attend and there is nothing wrong with not attending if you so choose.

I know there are many religions in the world and that Christianity was not started by Jesus. It is just another man-made organization, but based on the person of Jesus. There are many religions and I believe we can learn from each of them. I believe if Jesus walked the earth today, he would not be a Christian nor attend a church. He would be accepting of all people no matter their personal religious beliefs.

I found that the Bible never claims to be the Word of God, and never claims to be inerrant. The Holy Spirit is our teacher and our guide. John wrote that in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God. He also added the word became flesh and dwelt among us. That certainly is not a book. We can learn from the Bible because it is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, yet it is not dictated by God and it is not inerrant. I personally feel that the Bible has a lot of allegory and parables that point out spiritual truth, but it is not always actual events.

In regard to hell, I began to wonder how can a God of love create such a place. In the Bible, when it talks about hell (actually Gehenna) it was talking about a dumping ground/sacrificial area outside of Jerusalem. The idea of such a place has its origins in early Christianity, where those who rejected Christ were threatened with eternal torture in a lake of fire, called Tartarus or Gehenna (from Greek mythology and a nearby trash pit, respectively). I think that the theory of hell was started by the early church as a scare tactic to bring people into the church. Hell is a fear-based topic, but we know that perfect love casts out fear. Love draws and there is nothing about love in the theory of hell.

I believe that God is not some super-hero man sitting in heaven watching down on everyone. God is Spirit and the Spirit of God lives within us. God does have male and female traits, but God is not a male nor female. We are the temple; the Spirit of God lives within us. Could it be that the writers of the Bible were following what was common in their day, where women were property and only men were worthy. Did they use their prejudices when writing what would become the Bible by referring to God as male and Father? Personally, I think so. It is all written from a male perspective.

So, as you can see, I am definitely considered a heretic among the traditional Christian church-goers. I have no ill-will toward any of them. At one point, I was where they are now in my beliefs, but I no longer accept or follow the traditional doctrines taught within most churches today. I do follow the example of Jesus of loving God and loving others.

Obviously, these are all only my opinions and views. I may be right or I may be wrong. I do not force these views on anyone else. Each of us are free to chose for ourselves what we believe. What we are to do is love one another even in our differences, accept each other as we are and live life trying to help and encourage our fellow human beings along the way.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Becoming a Religious Heretic – Part 1

by Jim Gordon

Yes, I admit it. I have become a religious heretic. So, what is a heretic? According to the dictionary, it is a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted; the formal denial or doubt of a core doctrine of the Christian faith as defined by one or more of the Christian churches.

First let me say, the following are my thoughts and opinions. I am not saying I am right or wrong, but is where I am at now. I have changed my views over the past several years, and I will most likely change my views over the next several years. We are all entitled to our opinions and we should accept each other with the opinions we have. We certainly will not all agree.

After spending nearly sixty years in the institutional church (including from the time my parents took me as a baby and young child), my wife and I left the organization because we no longer felt we could completely agree with many of the church doctrines and generally accepted ways of the church. What led up to this decision was the many years within the church that taught me some things that I finally had to question.

I remember I went to church whenever the doors were open. I felt that I was going to God’s house and the Spirit may fall during a service and I did not want to miss it. I felt the pastor was well trained in spiritual matters and he was the middleman between God and me. I looked to the pastor for all the answers and to teach me more about God and what I should be doing.

Obviously, I believed that Christianity was the only way to know God and to be a true follower of Jesus. I always thought that Jesus came to start a new religion that would be the only correct way to follow him and only those who followed that religion would be saved.

I always held the Bible in very high regard. I felt it was dictated by God to humans, who carefully wrote everything down so we would have a perfect book about God. It was a love story and a rule book that would guide us each day of our lives. I believed the Bible was the true, inerrant and perfect word of God and it was clear on what it said.

I was one who believed people needed to get right with God or they would end up in Hell after they passed from this earth. Hell was created for the Devil and his angels, but people who rejected God would end up there also. Hell was also a great way to make people afraid enough to make a decision for Christ and boost church attendance.

How many times have we been told that God is our father, a male figure sitting on a throne in Heaven watching down on us, just waiting for us to mess up so he can punish us. If God did not see Jesus in us, then we were all doomed. Even Jesus called him father, so what else could he be?

Now, after becoming totally unsatisfied with what I had always been taught, I started to ask questions and seek answers from someone other than the pastor. I found books and podcasts of others who had other interpretations and views that really made sense. I found many people who had left the institution and were asking questions and finding answers other than the traditional ones the church always taught.

I came to see that church is not God’s house after-all, and the Spirit does not fall at specific places or at certain times. We the people are the church. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit who came to live within us once and for all. The Kingdom of God is within us. The church as we know it is just a building where people meet to fellowship and learn about God, but it is not necessary to attend and there is nothing wrong with not attending if you so choose.

I know there are many religions in the world and that Christianity was not started by Jesus. It is just another man-made organization, but based on the person of Jesus. There are many religions and I believe we can learn from each of them. I believe if Jesus walked the earth today, he would not be a Christian nor attend a church. He would be accepting of all people no matter their personal religious beliefs.

I found that the Bible never claims to be the Word of God, and never claims to be inerrant. The Holy Spirit is our teacher and our guide. John wrote that in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God. He also added the word became flesh and dwelt among us. That certainly is not a book. We can learn from the Bible because it is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, yet it is not dictated by God and it is not inerrant. I personally feel that the Bible has a lot of allegory and parables that point out spiritual truth, but it is not always actual events.

In regard to hell, I began to wonder how can a God of love create such a place. In the Bible, when it talks about hell (actually Gehenna) it was talking about a dumping ground/sacrificial area outside of Jerusalem. The idea of such a place has its origins in early Christianity, where those who rejected Christ were threatened with eternal torture in a lake of fire, called Tartarus or Gehenna (from Greek mythology and a nearby trash pit, respectively). I think that the theory of hell was started by the early church as a scare tactic to bring people into the church. Hell is a fear-based topic, but we know that perfect love casts out fear. Love draws and there is nothing about love in the theory of hell.

I believe that God is not some super-hero man sitting in heaven watching down on everyone. God is Spirit and the Spirit of God lives within us. God does have male and female traits, but God is not a male nor female. We are the temple; the Spirit of God lives within us. Could it be that the writers of the Bible were following what was common in their day, where women were property and only men were worthy. Did they use their prejudices when writing what would become the Bible by referring to God as male and Father? Personally, I think so. It is all written from a male perspective.

So, as you can see, I am definitely considered a heretic among the traditional Christian church-goers. I have no ill-will toward any of them. At one point, I was where they are now in my beliefs, but I no longer accept or follow the traditional doctrines taught within most churches today. I do follow the example of Jesus of loving God and loving others.

Obviously, these are all only my opinions and views. I may be right or I may be wrong. I do not force these views on anyone else. Each of us are free to chose for ourselves what we believe. What we are to do is love one another even in our differences, accept each other as we are and live life trying to help and encourage our fellow human beings along the way.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com 

Jesus Didn’t Die To Save You From Hell – Why Then?

By Mike Edwards

Has the real Gospel been hijacked? Church folks have been told forever that Jesus’ life and death on the Cross was to spare us from going to Hell to appease God’s anger about our sins. Can human, much less spiritual relationships, be built on fear and anger rather than love and grace? No wonder many don’t want to talk to us God-folks. We are too busy trying to save them from a fiery afterlife rather than discussing how God’s presence in our life now helps us become more the person we desire to become deep down. Godly living in this world leads to a meaningful life with less regrets.  

Jesus’ message couldn’t be about avoiding Hell and getting into Heaven 

Many of us who attended the institutional church were taught that God’s main mission was to save us from hell so we could go to heaven after death here on earth. All we had to do was say a prayer: “Thank you Jesus for dying on the cross for my sins. Please forgive me. I receive You as my Lord and Savior. Help me to live for you.” I can find no place in the Bible where Jesus advised such a prayer or demanded certain confessions to follow Him. The Good News couldn’t be about escaping a fiery, torturous God if such a hell isn’t biblical. See here.

Did Jesus really die on the Cross to appease God’s anger? 

Biblical scholars with interpretation expertise suggest many explanations about Jesus’ death. See here.  It seems to me that we may still be talking about Jesus’ life about love, because He was willing to die rather than power over others. Jesus’ death rather than His power has inspired billions to live unselfishly. Terrorists blow others up for a message they feel strongly about. Jesus only blew Himself up for a message He believed very strongly in – seek God’s help in loving others like you want to be loved.

• If Jesus had to die to appease God, why did Jesus pray to not have to die (Mt. 26:39)?
• How does an innocent person suffering really atone for another person’s sins? It doesn’t make “loving sense” to forgive a child by punishing another child.
• If Jesus’ death was required for forgiveness, why in the OT did God often forgive the Israelites? In the New Testament Jesus forgave others before dying on the Cross (Mt. 9:2; Lk. 7:48, etc.)

God cares the most about helping us to do good not evil in our relationships

Understand Jesus, understand God! Jesus didn’t speak of a certain prayer to repeat. Jesus commended Zacchaeus for recognizing a journey necessary to avoid personal destruction. Salvation is not a future destination but a currently reality (Lk 19). Jesus told the woman who had committed adultery: “go now, and leave your life of sin” (John 8). When Jesus was asked by a religious expert how to have eternal life, He simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37). Loving God leads to loving others. Jesus hung with the despised to reveal God’s love for all. Jesus confronted the religious who kept laws but didn’t follow Jesus with their heart. Jesus sought changes of the heart for the good of the world.

How can God help us? 

A relationship with God isn’t a future but current reality. Surely a loving God seeks to encourage us to pursue heavenly than worldly ways here on earth. God seeks to empower us to be the unselfish people we deep down desire to be. Maybe Jesus thought dying unjustly, rather than miraculously jumping off the Cross, revealed evil and God’s willingness to suffer with us and help. Who kills someone for simply claiming to be God? Many of us need to feel forgiven for the behaviors we have committed. God is dying to forgive you of wrong doing in hopes to inspire you to change for your interests and the interests of others.

Jesus Didn’t Die To Save You From Hell – Why Then?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com