Why Don’t We Want To Call Ourselves A Christian Nation (Christian Nationalism)?

By Mike Edwards

The Founders of America referred to God/Creator in the Declaration of Independence. They also referred to the “Laws of Nature.” The Founders fled to have freedom from Government control or tyranny, so they certainly would advocate for freedom of religious beliefs or that atheists shouldn’t be discriminated against. Christians leaders and others are often falsely accused of forcing beliefs on others by declaring their Christian heritage, but Christians aren’t always careful in their language. Declaring we are a Christian nation implies lack of freedom in religious beliefs.

A Christian label doesn’t respect God’s freedom of belief 

The presence of so much evil in the world suggests God has given us freedom to choose from the beginning. God understood forced love is an oxymoron. Without freedom we could accuse God of not creating the very best world where only true, authentic relationships can develop. It may be suggested that God eventually gets you by lighting infidels on fire and not allowing it to burn out in the afterlife. Christians must reject such a view of Hell. Now, when one meets their Creator and rejects living a loving/godly life, I can see them being allowed to pass into final death. I wrote here that Hell (a place of forever punishment) is doubtful biblically and morally from a loving God.

Even Jesus didn’t advocate for a Christian nation 

Most Christians argue that to understand Jesus is to understand God. Jesus didn’t attempt to overthrow the Roman Empire to establish a “Christian” nation. Jesus came to influence others to love as they want to be loved. Jesus spoke how to start living here on earth, not what awaited in the afterlife, when asked how to have eternal life. He simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk10:25-37). Jesus knew loving God led to loving your neighbor. If one is so inclined, they can ask for God’s help in living a meaningful life here on earth.

Christians often assume truth only comes from a Book 

How can there be a Christian nation if Christians disagree what such a worldview is? Christian leaders of companies or religious institutes often claim they are guided or adhere to biblical principles. This implies biblical understandings are agreed upon by all who follow the Bible, and non-followers have less than ideal morals. Ancient literature subject to human interpretation cannot be the definitive word on truth. Besides, it can’t be proven one’s God inspired all written down about God in their cherished book. I’m not convinced the writers always understood God perfectly. See here.

Good and evil has arisen because of how the Bible or other religious Books have been interpreted or viewed. Biblical scholars who respect Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible teaches about many moral values – women rights, gay condemnation, and the afterlife.  See here.  See here.  See here.  Some Religions’ Books are interpreted that God authorizes killing infidels in this life, not just suffer consequences in the afterlife. Again, it can’t be proven Prophets always understood God correctly. Common moral sense isn’t the enemy! 

Where do our rights come from – who’s on Top? 

If one’s Creator exist and is perfectly loving, natural law and God’s laws should be one and the same. Moral values are not determined by a Book, popular opinion, or by a few in power. There are universal values that most rational people agree on such as murder, stealing, equal rights for all, etc. We may disagree what should be the punishment for breaking certain laws. That must be debated openly. Most religions agree the overriding moral guide is to love others like you want to be treated. Belief or lack of belief in God doesn’t give you an excuse to not treat others like you want to be treated. Perfect rights or laws demonstrate loving others like we want to be love. Even atheists would agree.

We don’t all agree what the most loving actions are. It is a bit naïve for any nation to claim our values must be biblically based, as if all agree what the Bible says about abortion, gays, capital punishment, etc. The equal rights of women with men in many Nations are denied because of a Book. Regardless of your faith, most rational beings agree on many universal moral values (murder, stealing).  And no – climate control, immigration, taxes, health care, are not universal laws. The problem in the U.S. is debate is frowned up and attempts are made to censor contrary opinions.  

Is there a Nation we could all agree on? 

We are neither a God or godless nation. Censoring belief in God or unbelief in God is all the same. If suggested God is not above all, then neither is State/Government on top as a god. An ideal nation is surely free to believe in a Creator or not believe in a Creator. Christian politicians often claim or imply our rights are given by God. We can attempt to avoid accusations of Christian nationalism by clarifying our beliefs are personal not universal. Self-evident rights may be found in a Book or natural law, as we all have an inborn sense of good and evil. No rational being argues sexual abuse isn’t evil. Freedom of beliefs is our foundation to decide democratically the more caring action in policy.

I believe the Declaration of Independence and Constitution makes the U.S. unique from most other countries. We all have “unalienable rights” and not rights according to Government, Dictators or one’s understanding of a perfect, loving God. In our Republic, the Government is limited in taking away certain rights of the people. A true Democracy allows representation through voting, though the Constitution and Bill of Rights safeguard individual rights such as freedom of speech – protection from majority power over the minority. A true debate of differing opinions is out best chance at arriving at the most caring decision for all concerned. Until we all ask ourselves “am I acting toward others like I want to be treated,” we seem destined to fail.

Why Don’t We Want To Call Ourselves A Christian Nation (Christian Nationalism)?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Is The United States A Christian Nation Whose Rights Come From God?

By Mike Edwards

The United States is often referred to as a Christian Nation or a nation whose rights come from God. The Declaration of Independence penned in 1776 gives good reason to suggest our founder’s belief in a Creator:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness…That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. 

Is God a Christian nationalist?

We don’t all agree on a definition of this term, but those who believe in a God/Creator/Supreme Being aren’t always careful with their words. They are accused of attempting to establish a Christian nation, though they must agree we should respect one’s right to choose any faith or religion that doesn’t violate the rights of others (“unalienable Right to Liberty”). I doubt God is a Christian nationalist or sought to establish a Christian nation because of respect for freedom of belief. Besides, forced love is an oxymoron. Jesus came to influence others to love as they want to be loved, not to overthrow the Roman Empire to make it a God/Jesus/Christian empire.

Who do our rights come from? 

I happen to have faith there is a Creator, but faith is an individual decision. Regardless of one’s belief, we aren’t clueless right from wrong. Such clues don’t come just from a Book. The majority of people born into this world didn’t have a Bible, and people knew right from wrong before the Bible. Rights neither come from a few individuals that happen to be in Government. Perfect rights or laws are those that demonstrate loving others like we want to be love. Even atheists would agree.

How do we determine what perfect, loving laws are?

We don’t all agree what the most loving actions are. It is a bit naïve for any nation to claim our values must be biblically based, as if all agree what the Bible says about abortion, gays, capital punishment, etc.  See here.  The equal rights of women with men in many Nations are denied because of a Book. Regardless of your faith, most rational beings agree on many universal moral values (murder, stealing).  And no – climate control, immigration, taxes, health care, are not universal laws. The problem in the U.S. is debate is frowned up and attempts are made to quash contrary opinions.

How do we create a nation where “all are created equal with unalienable rights?

I believe the Declaration of Independence and Constitution makes the U.S. unique from most other countries. We all have “unalienable rights” and not rights according to Government or Dictators. In our Republic, the Government is limited in taking aways certain rights of the people. Our Democracy allows representation through voting, though the Constitution and Bill of Rights safeguard individual rights such as freedom of speech, thus protection from majority power over the minority. A true debate of differing opinions is out best chance at arriving at the most caring decision for all concerned. Until we all ask ourselves “am I acting toward others like I want to be treated,” we seem destined to fail.

Is The United States A Christian Nation Whose Rights Come From God?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

The United States and the Kingdom of God

by Jim Gordon

We hear a lot about Christian Nationalism lately. I had never thought much about it before, but with all the talk about it in the news, it is quickly becoming a popular topic.

I have to say, I love my country. The United States is the only country on earth I would prefer to live in, although it certainly is not perfect. Yet the United States falls way short compared to the Kingdom of God.

The problem seems to be that we hear more and more about some Christian people wanting to get officials elected that will make laws and force supposed Christian values as laws of the land.

It seems many Christians are making more out of the kingdom of the United States than they are the Kingdom of God.

I recently read an article about a new bible called The God Bless the USA Bible, in which the constitution, bill of rights, declaration of independence, pledge of allegiance and the words to the song God Bless the USA are written inside. It also has an American flag on the front cover. No different than having a pastor or celebrity autograph a bible, putting a specific country’s national writings in the bible is no good and completely out of place.

For some reason, many of those involved in the Christian church seem to think that America is a Christian nation. They seem to think that America is God’s chosen nation and they need to force biblical values on everyone.

The fact is that America is not God’s chosen people. It is not a Christian nation, but made up of people from all faiths and religions. God does not just love the people of the United States, but God so loves the world. He loves all people, all nations, all faiths.

What happened to seek first the Kingdom of God? What happened to the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount on how to live for God and how to treat others?

In Christian Nationalism, America itself seems to be the center of attention and hope for the world rather than Jesus. It seems to me that people are trying to make America into an idol and trying to force Christian precepts as the law of the land. This should not be.

It was extremely hard to watch the events of January 6 where people illegally stormed the Capitol of the United States and caused damage, injuries and even death. Even worse, many of them were carrying Christian flags, Christian slogans and were seen praying and thanking God for such an event. There certainly is no love in any of that, and no caring for others.

It seems many put more emphasis on political power in the United States and making Christian rule the law of the land than they do following the example of Jesus by loving all people and focusing on the Kingdom of God.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com