Why Do People Leave The Church Building But Not God?

By Mike Edwards

I wrote here why people possibly deconvert though at one time having faith in God. Many Christian leaders imply those leaving the institutional church are leaving God. DONES are often deconverting from religion not God! One does not have to be involved in a regular Christian community to be a God-follower. I wrote here  why I left the religious institution not God. There are many advantages to being a part of a group of people who seek to encourage one another about God. But many of us had to leave the building!

What are some emotional reasons people leave the building? 

Packard has done much of the research. Many leave the building due to observed lack of responsible stewardship. 60% of the budget went toward the 90-minute show without serving better those outside the building. Many leave because being preached at doesn’t allow meaningful dialogue. Being so damn certain all the time is hardly relational, especially when even scholars disagree what the Bible says about issues impacting the lives of so many people. Many felt the lack of grace. People weren’t looking to excuse their moral failures, but why can’t we focus less on sexual behaviors and more on the poor, homeless, etc. Who is perfect! People leave for many reasons including abuse by leadership. 

People leave for the same intellectual reason others leave the faith all-together 

A major factor in leaving the building or God all together is because of views claimed about God.  God according to the Bible supposedly condemns gays, burns unbelievers in the afterlife, and thinks women can fulfill the same roles as men though just as gifted. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here.  See here.  See here.  It is only intuitive that a Creator loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. Biblical interpretations that don’t match how you and most know you ought to love your neighbor may be amiss.

Another major intellectual reason is due to certain explanations given for the presence of evil and suffering in our world despite there being a God. It is understandable why many can’t believe in a supposedly, all-powerful God who standbys while one is being raped, tortured, murdered, abused, etc. What kind of parent or God stands by and not intervene when they could prevent such suffering? Maybe a perfect, loving God can’t be controlling just as they can’t be manipulative. Maybe God can’t intervene single-handedly without human help. See Thomas Oord. The alternative is that God can always stop your suffering and doesn’t, or that God arbitrarily stops other’s sufferings sometimes but not yours. I doubt it! 

Going forward 

In the Bible “Church” was not a building or a place attended once a week. Jesus referred to His followers as being the Church and to encourage and care for one another.  The Bible doesn’t tell the Church to go to church.  Jesus said “Where two or more are gathered in His name” God would be present. Jesus did not specify where they must gather, what they must do or how they must do it. Simply find environments to encourage and be encouraged to radically love as Jesus did. Personally, in the church if I opened my mouth about disagreements about leadership’s views of what a loving God is like, I felt I was being divisive and pulling others down. I am comfortable disagreeing, but I am not looking to force my views on others. Our relationship with God isn’t about an institution or day of the week. It’s a daily, hourly relationship.

Why Do People Leave The Church Building But Not God?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Why Do Many Deconstruct Or Deconvert From God?

By Mike Edwards

Christians are more familiar with the term “deconstructing” from the Christian faith. I am not writing about those who aren’t done with God just religion. I have in mind those who stop believing in God, or God becomes much less a part of one’s life despite belief in God. Such people may have attended church or a religious institute regularly at some time, while others may have rarely or never entered a church door but are inclined to believe in God. Why are many moving away from God though desiring a relationship?

Why are some inclined to pursue God or not? 

Christians especially are guilty of implying those who don’t believe in or stop pursuing God are suppressing what they know to be true. I disagree. I suppose some deny there is a God to justify their evil ways, but those I know not into God as much as me are just as moral if not more than I am.  Let’s not accuse those who believe in a God as needing a crutch or accuse those who question the reality of an invisible God as being wicked and ignorant of their feelings.

Many people do or don’t purse God, or rebel against God, because of the family they are born in. I am not sure I would be pursuing God if my parents hadn’t encouraged it. Some by personality are more skeptical or accepting. I am sure many don’t pursue God for obvious emotional reasons. A child abused by their father may struggle to accept a God betrayed as our Father in Heaven. Many are turned away from God because of the hypocrisy of God-following friends or leaders.

What may be the main intellectual reasons leaving a belief in God?   

One’s view of God is critical in their journey. See here. I am convinced a major factor in deconverting or moving away from God is because of views claimed about God. It is claimed the Bible supposedly says that God condemns gays, God burns unbelievers in the afterlife, and God doesn’t think women can fulfill the same roles as men though just as gifted. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here.  See here.  See here.

Another major intellectual reason is due to certain explanations given for the presence of evil and suffering in our world despite there being a God. It is understandable why many can’t believe in a supposedly, all-powerful God who standbys while one is being raped, tortured, murdered, abused, etc. What kind of parent or God doesn’t intervene when they could prevent such suffering? Maybe a perfect, loving God can’t be controlling just as they can’t be manipulative. Maybe God can’t intervene single-handedly without human help. See Thomas Oord. The alternative is that God can always stop your suffering and doesn’t, or that God arbitrarily stops other’s sufferings sometimes but not yours. I am convinced there are better explanations.

Why we must stop claiming the Bible is inspired!

Inspiration suggests God’s approval. Keep in mind we can’t prove God controlled every thought or word written by the biblical author. God didn’t dictate the Bible to others. Stating as proof that the writers claimed such inspiration is circular reasoning. The truth is that even if our interpretations were infallible, we can’t be sure the biblical writers always knew or portrayed God accurately. It is only intuitive that a Creator loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. Biblical interpretations, or a biblical writer’s understanding about God, that doesn’t match how you and most know you ought to love your neighbor may be amiss. A supposed inspired Book must not replace our relationship with God and common moral sense. See here.

Pursing God is about following God, not adhering to certain beliefs 

We are often told the main message of the Bible is Jesus coming to give you salvation to save you from Hell so you could enter Heaven. Common understandings of Hell aren’t necessarily biblical, thus how could this be Jesus’ central message? See here. When Jesus was asked by a religious expert how to have eternal life, which surely implies salvation, Jesus spoke of how to start living here on earth not what awaited in the afterlife. He simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37). Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself. You don’t have to drop to your knees and say a prayer to get “in” with God. You only have to want God’s help. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help. Personally, I am convinced there is a God and my relationship with God has inspired and encouraged me to be the person I desire to be.

Why Do Many Deconstruct Or Deconvert From God?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Deconstruction, Reconstruction…When Does It All End?

by Jim Gordon

After all the years I spent in church and being taught the various Bible stories, I always thought I had everything about God figured out. I thought I knew everything there was to know to have fellowship with God and do what was “right” for a Christian to do.

I have found this to be a common feeling among many Christian people. We think by listening to the pastor and doing some Bible reading, we have all the answers and do not need to seek out any other ways of looking at things.

Yet, as time went by, I began having some questions on things that did not make sense to me. I would notice now and then that I would even have some doubts. Of course, I did not pursue any of these questions or doubts because a ‘good’ Christian does not do that. To question or doubt was the fastest way to show you had very little faith.

As the years went by, I became a little more open to seriously wondering about some of the things I was taught in church. I started reading some books by others who felt the same way. I came to the conclusion that God was big enough to handle my questions and doubts, so I no longer felt guilty about having them. More and more people are coming to this same conclusion and are beginning to question and challenge some of the things they were taught.

I notice that some people begin to ask questions, but quickly feel guilty for doing so and go back to their old way of keeping quiet and not asking questions. Others begin to doubt and question and end up completely leaving their faith. It is sad when that happens, but everyone is certainly entitled to follow what they feel is right for them. Still others, such as me, started learning new things, found new interpretations, changed their way of thinking, changed some of their basic doctrinal beliefs and left the institutional church but did not leave their faith in God.

I soon realized I was participating in something I came to know as deconstruction. I did not know there was an actual term for what I was going through. This is common now and there is certainly nothing wrong with it. Basically, it is questioning your faith and what you were taught over the years, throwing out some things, changing your mind on some things and then starting to see some things in a new way.

The more I think about it, I think that doubts, questions, deconstruction and reconstruction will be something that never ends. I think this will be the norm for the rest of my earthly life. I personally think if we stop wondering and stop questioning, we will become stagnant in our faith. God is so much bigger than we realize, and there are so many more things to learn than what we have been taught throughout our time in church. If you are having some questions and doubts about your faith, do not feel guilty about it. Follow them and trust the Holy Spirit within you to guide you into more truth. Never stop seeking to grow in the grace and knowledge of the love of God.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Christ Alone is Our Source

 by Jim Gordon

There is an old hymn that says “On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand”. This leads me to think about the organized church. As important as the church is in our lives, we have to be careful not to put our hope in it. I have received a lot of help through the church and a lot of good basic teachings. I also learned of salvation but my hope is not in the church. My hope is in “Christ the solid rock”.

There are times when we are alone in our walk with God and without regular fellowship with our brothers and sisters in Christ. Many of us have left the organization and are deconstructing our faith and may have to stand alone for a while. Fortunately, we can rely on our relationship with Christ because his Spirit lives within us. The church is no substitute for Christ. It is where we can learn about Him but it is not the goal. The point is that we have a relationship with Christ and not the church, and He is our source of strength.

The modern-day organized church is a place for believers to get together, but it is not the main source. Going to church does not make us Christians, it does not make us better people or more dedicated believers. It is a place to get ideas, different interpretations and encouragement from others, a place to meet other believers and enjoy fellowship, and a place to reach out and help others.

We need to stop putting the focus and emphasis on church, stop putting our eyes on pastors and realize that they are not the answer. We need to put all focus and attention on Christ. It is Jesus who we follow and worship. He is the Shepherd and the rest of us are his sheep. There are no co-shepherds and no intermediates between Christ and us. We are to follow Christ and Him alone. We are to learn from Him and love others equally.

There is nothing wrong with going to church, but do not put your eyes on it and the leaders therein. Keep your focus on Christ. Whether you go to church or do not go to church, Christ is the one we look to and serve. Do not worry so much about going to church, but rather be the Church. It is not a building we go to, but it is the people who love and follow Christ.

If you have been going through the deconstruction process from organized religion like I have, you will learn that you can depend on Jesus to lead you into his truth. He will prove His love and care for you over and over just as he has done for me. Bottom line, let’s be careful that we do not put our dependence on an organization but on Jesus. All other ground is sinking sand.

Leaving Our Faith But Not Our God

by Jim Gordon

Does it not seem strange that in the christian church world we are told we are to love others, yet when we come to a difference of opinion or a change in views in our beliefs, christians can be the first to throw a stone?

We hear about fairly well-known individuals within the church system say they have changed their views and no longer accept some of the teachings they grew up with in the church. They are not necessarily saying they are walking away from God but they are walking away from many things they have been told about God they no longer accept.

When this happens, usually other christians are the first to judge and condemn these individuals rather than try to accept them and find out exactly what is going on. Their first thought is they are leaving their complete belief and faith in God.

Many times, this is not what the person is saying anyway. Leaving religious teachings of the church is not leaving God. In fact, many times leaving some of these teachings behind is just the beginning of a deeper walk with God.

I grew up in the traditional church setting and I had many good times there. I met a lot of nice people and learned many things about God. The thing is the church as we know it was never what God intended. Church is not a place or an organization, it is the people who love God and love, support and encourage one another.

The church today seems more like a corporation with the CEO and board of directors. I know there are a lot of good people within the church system. They love God and want to live their life for him. Yet for my wife and I, we became disenchanted with the religious system and felt there was a better way for us to live for God, which was outside the walls of religion and the human-led system of church each week.

We felt that since the Spirit lives within us there is no need for a middle-man (pastor) to lead and teach us. If the Spirit of God actually lives within us, why do we so often depend on a human being to lead and teach us?

I certainly do not want to make anyone feel bad if they are still a part of the institutional church. They are like I used to be and feel that was the best way to show love for God and learn about God. I would not tell anyone they should leave the system, although for my wife and I we certainly do believe it was the best thing for us.

Whether you are in the church system, questioning the church system or have left it, the main focus should be to love God and love one another. Doing so fulfills all the law and the prophets (as Matthew 22:35-40 explains). Of course, we know that the law no longer needs to be fulfilled but at the time Jesus taught this he was living under the law. Now that grace has been applied, we no longer live by the law but by love.

Leaving the institutional church or changing and deconstructing your religious views and interpretations do not mean you are leaving God. Rather than jump on board with those who judge and condemn, take a little bit and find out more about what is going on. Then remember we are all at a different place on the path as we follow Jesus. Pray for one another, encourage and support one another but do not beat one another up as we each try to follow Jesus as we feel led.

Forever Recovering

by Rocky Glenn

This week marks the three year anniversary of my blogged Confessions.  When I began sharing my thoughts in 2016, I had no plan, imagination, or notion I would still be doing so three years later or any clue all of the twists, turns, bumps, hills, and surprises which lay ahead.  I never truly intended to take the path I have now followed and never imagined I would oppose and disagree with so much I once held dear.  I labeled myself a churchboy as the most accurate description of the life I lived and was leaving behind: a life of performance, a life of striving to achieve a standard often unspoken yet expected, a life of constantly comparing myself to others to ensure my efforts exceeded any they may put forth to please God.  The churchboy moniker was not intended to identify one who attends church, to me it was simply a name to identify what I had become . . . a modern day religious expert concerned more with complying to rules and traditions rather than living with a humble and loving heart.   Last year at this time, I took time to expound on my definition in What Is A Churchboy?  This year I want to take a look at a different part of the blog title.

I’ve often heard those who have overcome addictions refer to themselves as a recovering addict.  Even when interviewed after they’ve been clean or sober for twenty, thirty years or even longer, many still use the term.  Per the definition above from Merriam-Webster, recovering is being in the process of overcoming a disorder or shortcoming.  Does this mean they are still fighting the sames urges, battles, and temptations just as strongly as they once were?  Is it indicative of a lack of growth or progress in their battle to put their demons behind them?  Quite the contrary.  They are not living in a defeated or pessimistic state of mind.  It’s a point of humility, a reminder of who they once were, where they came from, the hills they’ve climbed and the valleys they’ve walked.  It keeps the awareness alive in their mind of the possibility of slipping back into addiction and serves as a connecting point to others battling the same addictions which once held them captive.  The term recovering sums up in a word the oft quoted phrase, “There but for the grace of God goes I.”

Being a recovering churchboy is a similar journey.  Having been set free from a prison of religion, it’s easy to slip back into “religious” habits as the pendulum swings to the opposite extreme of what I once believed.  If someone doesn’t value the freedom I’ve found but instead chooses to criticize, condemn, or attack these new-found freedoms and beliefs, the churchboy inside would seek to condemn them and lash out at them for being wrong and not truly understanding the gospel.  As one who is now willing to admit vast uncertainty about many issues I once claimed absolute certainty on, I bristle when encountering others who remind me of my former self.  It’s not always easy to avoid being just as harsh and critical as before of those displaying the same close-minded, smug, self-righteous attitude I once carried.  Once again, the churchboy inside seeks to commend himself for now being more acceptable, more open, and more loving than he once was all the while refusing to be accepting, open, and loving with those who disagree with him.  The long held churchboy tendencies to only associate with those who share similar beliefs and exclude all who disagree seek to rise to the surface but as one podcast host shared recently, “Exclusive inclusiveness is still exclusiveness.”

No one who has overcome an addiction desires to ever again become enslaved to the addiction which once held them captive.  To lessen the likelihood of this happening, it often requires a complete change of life which could include anything from new hobbies or friends to help pass the time all the way to relocating to a new city.  Likewise, I have no desire to return to the holier than thou, judgmental life of a churchboy.   The key to overcoming the churchboy life also requires change.  Our change comes through repentance.  Repentance is a word thrown in Christian circles quite often to imply a time of great sorrow and remorse accompanied with tears and confession of shortcomings and sins committed.  To define it in such a manner is short sighted and inaccurate.  According to Thayer’s Greek Lexicon, it means a change of mind and according to Strong’s definition it means a reversal of one’s decision.  For churchboys to recover it requires a change of mind to understand the Father’s unconditional love which exists regardless of anything the churchboy may or may not do.  According to Paul, the sole reason for God’s kindness was to bring us to that change of mind.  Our decisions are reversed when we stop striving to meet God’s standards through our accomplishments and squash the comparisons of others to ourselves.  True peace comes in realizing if God has offered me his love and kindness with no requirements and no strings attached, he has done the same for everyone.  Waking up to this knowledge should truly allow us to love our neighbor as ourselves just as God loves us which fully embraces the idea of recovering.

I am beyond grateful for the freedom I have discovered in God’s love and for the ability to share the journey over these last three years.  Do I have everything figured out?  No!  Am I confident what I now believe is what I will always believe?  No!  Is it okay to live with uncertainty and live a life of perfect imperfection secure in God’s love?  Absolutely!

Thank for you taking the time to share the past three years with me and I look forward to sharing many more with you.  I will forever be a recovering churchboy.

https://donewithreligion.com/2019/03/29/forever-recovering/

I Still Want to Fly

by Rocky Glenn

My fascination with eagles began when I was around ten years old.  I remember sitting in awe as the guest evangelist at the Pentecostal church we were attending described the power and majesty of an eagle soaring and how that power and majesty described a life spent trusting in God based on the words of the prophet Isaiah.  Although I cannot recall anything specific mentioned in that sermon from over thirty years ago, I do know that from the day forward I was captivated by the words found in Isaiah 40:31:

But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

Since that time,  eagles have been displayed by multiple printed photos, posters, and ceramic figures over the years to the point that to this day I still have a 4″ figurine sitting on my desk in front of my computer monitor which has followed me to my last three jobs.  As I shared in Roller Coaster of Waiting, I proudly wear a daily reminder of Isaiah’s words on my arm.  Recently a friend shared with me a Facebook video about eagles and how they react when a storm is approaching.  The eagle will fly to a high spot and wait for the winds to arrive.  As the winds come, the eagle simply moves it wings allowing the wind to pick it up and lift it above the storm.  Although the video lasted no more than a minute, it caused more of a reaction than simply the moisture in my eyes as it reminded me of something other than the scientific facts about my beloved bird of prey.  I was reminded that I still want to fly.

Though I’ve been unable to determine the original author, I recall the following fable about a baby eagle:

A baby eagle became orphaned when something happened to his parents. He glided down to the ground from his nest but was not yet able to fly. A man picked him up. The man took him to a farmer and said, “This is a special kind of barnyard chicken that will grow up big.” The farmer said, “Don’t look like no barnyard chicken to me.” “Oh yes, it is. You will be glad to own it.” The farmer took the baby eagle and placed it with his chickens.

The baby eagle learned to imitate the chickens. He could scratch the ground for grubs and worms too. He grew up thinking he was a chicken.

Then one day an eagle flew over the barnyard. The eagle looked up and wondered, “What kind of animal is that? How graceful, powerful, and free it is.” Then he asked another chicken, “What is that?” The chicken replied, “Oh, that is an eagle. But don’t worry yourself about that. You will never be able to fly like that.”

And the eagle went back to scratching the ground. He continued to behave like the chicken he thought he was. Finally he died, never knowing the grand life that could have been his.

When things you’ve believed without question begin to cause more uncertainty, doubt, questions, and even pain, than you are able to settle, it is quite a life changing process.  Questions about who you are, what’s really true, and why you do things are not answered quickly or easily, and sometimes not even at all.  The unraveling of life as a churchboy has been a process of internally traveling through memories, thoughts, and at times accusations mentally sandblasting the very core of who I am.  It’s been a journey of constant questioning of am I saying this or acting this way because of who I truly am or because of what I’ve been taught and conditioned to believed.  This deconstruction has been painful, lonely, and the most unsettling experience I’ve yet to encounter.  There have been times it seems it would have been less painful and more peaceful to simply abandon the process and return to life as I knew it, but returning to that life meant dying as a chicken when I was meant to be an eagle.

Based on the translation listed above and the one embedded in memory, the only thing Isaiah says is required to mount with wings as eagles is to wait on the Lord.  Prior to this journey of the last few years, my favorite picture the word wait painted is of a waiter/waitress which we refer to now more commonly as simply a server.  If you need more water, your cup is refilled.  If you request special food preparations, the server communicates those to the chef.  A server ensures all your needs or requests are satisfied during your dining experience.  As a churchboy I believed, taught, and preached it was our duty act as a server to God.  We had to work and strive to ensure He was completely satisfied and all His desires and requests were met.  Doing so would be the only way we could truly soar as eagles.  I’ve recently been introduced to a new word picture of the word wait which resonated deep within me.  In the fitness world, there is an exercise which has increased in popularity in recent years known as planking.  Planking is a strength exercise that involves maintaining a position for the maximum possible time.  The plank strengthens the abs, back, and shoulders.  Though it looks simple to execute, those who participate attest to the difficulty, fatigue, and even soreness which sets in stretching muscles that often go unused or used very little.  The longer I am on the journey of churchboy recovery, I find myself mentally and spiritually planking simply waiting on what’s to come.

As a musician, there are times you sit in front of your instrument fiddling over with a riff, chord, or melody repeatedly simply knowing a song resides within.  Nearly twenty-five years ago, I sat day after day at a piano repeating a pattern eight notes alternating between chords.  What came forth was a simple song which those closest to me know as a description of who I desire to be.  So much a part of who I am, it was crafted, framed and gifted to me to display:

Eagles soar above storms and fly with little to no effort.  Though my life looks much different now than it once did, my heart’s main desire hasn’t changed.  I want be an eagle and I still want to fly.