We Are Not All Going to Agree So Let’s Work on Loving One Another

by Michael Donahoe Do you notice the fact that no matter what you believe, or what your interpretation is someone always has a completely opposite view. You get excited about hearing some truth that really connects, and the next thing you read an article by another Christian that completely disagrees with what you just heard. Even more than that, most of us Christians get mad when someone disagrees with us and is different. We get on Facebook and make ourselves look crazy because we talk about brotherly love, then we fight and argue with someone because they interpret things differently, and mostly about things we cannot prove one way or the other. Overall, this is really not that unusual because we are all different. We have different backgrounds, different viewpoints and opinions, and different ideas on how to live. We really have to stop and think that whatever it is we believe, whatever our interpretation, everyone is not going to agree with us. There is no reason for us to get mad at someone else for being different. This life is all a matter of faith. No matter what it is spiritually speaking, no one can really prove what is right and what is not. Just because someone has a different interpretation does not mean they are right or wrong. We need to keep our ears open to the leading of the Spirit, and follow on our own path looking to Jesus. That does not mean any and every path is the right one, but we cannot be the judge of who is right and who is wrong. Jeremy Myers, in his book ‘Dying to Religion and Empire’ states, “The beautiful thing about following Jesus is that while He leads us all in the same direction, there are millions of different paths He can take to get us there. His goal, of course, is to advance the Kingdom of God on earth through the people of God who are being conformed into the image of God”. Our goal is to follow Christ as he leads us individually, and then be ready to love all people, no matter if they are on the same path or not. Let’s stop arguing, fighting, and demanding that everyone agree with us, and love and accept those we meet along the journey. I think God is big enough to lead us all to the truth in proper timing. ******* Michael Donahoe was added as a writer for Done with Religion as his views fit perfectly with those that are shared on this site. He and his wife have been outside the walls of religion for fifteen years. He enjoys writing about his experiences and thoughts, and he wants to encourage others who are going through the religious deconstruction process. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

God Doesn’t Mind Skeptics!

by Mike Edwards I would suggest you are better off doubting what you have been told and verify it for yourself. It isn’t easy in the land of uncertainty but it can save you from regretful decisions in the arenas of religion, science, and politics. Being a skeptic isn’t being disrespectful. Children will often claim “I didn’t do it.” You still love them but still seek to confirm they are telling the truth. A marriage may be different as such a relationship has built up trust, but we certainly can question our partner’s opinions as we all need to think for ourselves. Spiritual Authorities Too much trust is given to pastors and other religious leaders without questioning their opinions. Run from leaders who are afraid or unwilling to defend or discuss their opinions. Many will proclaim “the Bible says” without acknowledging many don’t agree with their interpretation. Scholars do not agree on many moral issues. I was told often that the Bible teaches there is a literal hell where unbelievers in the afterlife are tortured with fire forever after a few short years living here on planet earth. 12 Reasons To Believe Hell Is A Myth! This impacted my view of God and caused regrets in my relationships. I felt obligated to evangelize them out of hell. I wish I had challenged many views of God that went against my moral intuitions. Moral of story – don’t believe everything you hear claimed about God! See here. Science experts Many readers have begun to question their spiritual leadership. Lessons learned – we should question authorities in all areas of our life in case they are wrong. Because of my early religious experiences and contrarian personality – I knew to question experts who said to trust them without debate. It has been declared in the past that the Covid vaccines prevented infection and transmission of the disease. That was the purpose of mandates. Scientists and doctors who declared otherwise were censored, but it turns out they weren’t the mis-informers. Those who claimed masks didn’t prevent the spread of a virus were called mis-informers. Turns out a review that dug into findings of 78 randomized controlled trials discovered wearing masks made little or no difference in stopping the virus. See here. Lots of my friends who wore masks got Covid. For those curious, it is claimed by many masks can even be harmful to the virus getting inside the mask and staying on the masks thus breathing it in. “Undebated/censored science” isn’t science. We must make decisions for ourselves in case so-called experts are wrong. Politicians We often don’t change our mind because we make decisions based on our feelings than cognitions. Should we make buying decisions based on if we want it as opposed to whether we can afford it? Should we date or marry someone based only on feelings or based on their actions? In our recent election, many voted based on their feelings about a particular candidate. Without specific evidence one is Hitler incarnated or a Communist. I am convinced a wiser choice is to vote based on policies/cognitions that I believe best for the future of my children, grandchildren, and country. Climate alarmists have warned of the world coming to an end in the past. We still live on. Ignore those unwilling to debate. Question every idea and decide for yourself after looking at both views. Certainty or uncertainty? One may believe what seems to be the popular narrative, without exploration, to avoid anxiety not knowing. Disagreeing with the popular science narrative or church leadership about God’s character can lead to isolation. The truth is certainty is an illusion unless talking about universal moral sins such as rape or incest. Adultery isn’t only wrong in the eyes of the betrayer. Assume uncertainty if you have one rational friend who believes differently from you whether it’s about religion, science, or politics. It should be intuitive those who reject diverse opinions is unloving and controlling. Most don’t except such behaviors in their personal relationships. Having good intentions by believing you are right for the whole doesn’t matter if you could be wrong. Religious leaders seem hell-bent in telling people what they must believe about God according to their understanding and interpretation of the Bible. Scientists or Politicians who refuse debate of their policies are no different. Leaders play God (Superior) in the lives of others by claiming to know the truth and we can’t decide for ourselves. I have a hunch God especially loves skeptics! Most agree an unloving or tyrannical God isn’t worth believe in. It is only intuitive, if a Creator exist, that a Creator loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. A parent obviously loves a child who finds it easier than their others children to accept them and their ways. But we don’t unlove our skeptical children. A greater pain may be when our children ignore us. Spiritual or human parents don’t desire forced love, which isn’t genuine, but hope for consideration and to prove the possibility of a better relationship. Be a free thinker and resist those who resist! ******* Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like

Acting in Faith

by Michael Donahoe What is acting in faith? It is taking action even when we cannot see or prove that something is there. I remember when I was a little boy, I would wake up in the middle of the night and call out in the dark to my mom. I could not see her but I knew she was there. If I went by sight I would never have called out to her and I would not have received the comfort I needed. The same with God, we cannot see God but we know God is there. We must realize that we live by faith or we will never call out to God and receive what we need. In certain ways, I see all people as people of faith. That is not saying that all people have faith in God but all have faith. Some people have faith in science, some in various religions, some in humanity and others have faith in God. God loves each one of us no matter what we put our faith in. God accepts us, loves us and has restored fellowship with us through grace, and that is all through faith. None of us can prove beyond a doubt that there is a God or that there is not a God. None of us can prove Heaven or Hell, it is all by faith. Just as it is by faith that we flip a light switch and expect the lights to come on, or sit on a chair and expect it to hold us, it is by acting in faith that we accept God and know God is there. Do not worry about trying to prove God to everyone you meet. Live your life daily by acting in faith in God. Allow God to live through you and touch others by loving them with godly love. It is by us acting in faith that we can show the love of God to others. ******* Michael Donahoe was added as a writer for Done with Religion as his views fit perfectly with those that are shared on this site. He and his wife have been outside the walls of religion for fifteen years. He enjoys writing about his experiences and thoughts, and he wants to encourage others who are going through the religious deconstruction process. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

What Is God’s Love Really Like?

by Mike Edwards I write a lot about this topic as I named my blog over 15 years ago What God May Really Be Like I used the word “May” because I was countering dogmatism growing up in church. Who knows what God is really like unless God talks to you directly? Be humble. But, if you are told something about God that goes against your moral intuitions, question it. Most accept God is love. How do we best determine what God love like There is a problem claiming the Bible is the definitively word on what God’s love is like. Ancient literature is subject to interpretation. Even if the writers understood their God perfectly, which we can’t prove, we can’t claim our interpretations are perfect. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for the Bible don’t agree what God thinks about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here. See here. See here. Gays are supposedly condemned, women’s leadership roles are limited, despite their gifts and a fiery torturous afterlife awaits infidels – all in God’s name! Why wouldn’t God be most like what our moral intuitions suggest. Our inborn sense of good and evil, not an ancient Book, tells us sexual abuse or murder is immoral. If a Creator exists, it is only intuitive that a Creator loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. We all seem to know the question we ought to ask ourselves – am I loving others perfectly? Or am I loving others like I want to be loved. Many times, when one believes contrary to universal moral intuitions (infidels should be destroyed in this life), it is because of their interpretation of a supposed inspired Book by their God. Surely, perfect human love is the same as Godly love The only God worth believing in must be perfectly loving as opposed to in any way hateful. God’s love surely is the same as supreme parents – other-directed not self-consumed. Love gets excited when we do well and make a difference in the lives of others. Love anticipates, hopes for my success, believes in me, pulls for me even when failing, because I do the same for my children. We doubt God but God still loves. Parents bring children into the world hoping their children freely reciprocate their love for authentic relationships. Why would God be any different. How you imagine God’s love can determine how you relate to others If we think God is hard to please and pissed off about sin rather than what sin is doing to us, we may judge others just as harshly rather than showing patience and mercy If God is really a warlike God according to the OT, we will use such behaviors to possibly justify going to war when we shouldn’t If God condemns gays, we will condemn gays out of devotion to God If God thinks men have authority over women in some positions, that will filter down to your wives, daughters, and friends and stifle their gifts If God can prevent evil and doesn’t, isn’t that like a parent who arbitrarily decides to watch their child being sexually abused or not? Maybe God can’t love perfectly by controlling freedom. God can only stop evil with the help of others or not create freedom! I’m convinced belief in a benevolent God, according to common moral intuitions, makes you kinder. We often treat others the way we think God treats us. How has God’s threats of punishment helped you break away from bad habits or behaviors you long to change? I guess fear God if helps to avoid consequences of destructive actions. But if struggling and need encouragement and mercy, a loving God awaits with open arms. Grace or authoritativeness doesn’t guarantee change, but I believe we best change because of a friend’s or God’s love and acceptance. See It Matters If Your God Is Nurturing Or Authoritative! Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like

Forsake Not Assembling Together

by Michael Donahoe

So often, when we talk about church we think of a building we go to once a week. I do not know about you, but the verse in Hebrews 10:25 about not forsaking the assembling of yourselves together sure gets quoted a lot when it comes to church attendance.

Once someone hears my wife and I have stopped attending an organized service each week, the first thing we usually hear is this verse.

Truth of the matter is, I do not think this verse is even talking about what we call church.

As I have stated before, church is not a building or a place. Church is the people of God, those of us born into the Kingdom by grace. Church is not an organization it is an organism. Church is not a one-day event, it is a daily lifestyle of people loving God and loving others.

When reading the verses preceding this verse, you find it is talking about how we are now granted permission to enter into the Holy place, not a building, but into the presence of God. This happened when Jesus died and the veil was torn from top to bottom.

To me, this verse is saying that we need our brothers and sisters in Christ for encouragement and to stimulate one another to love and good deeds in Christ. It has nothing to do with an organized religious service in a building. It has everything to do with loving and communicating with other Christians.

When we think of countries where Christianity is against the law and churches are closed down, we know people are not attending a service every week. Are they wrong for not doing so? Of course not. They get together when they can, with who they can, usually in small groups in houses or where-ever they feel they can meet safely. It may not be more than two or three people and it can be any day of the week.

Jesus said where two or three gather together in my name, there I am in their midst. We do not need buildings or large groups of people to enjoy assembling together, but we do need each other. This can happen meeting at home, meeting for dinner at a restaurant, getting together in a park or any other place or any day the Spirit brings us into fellowship. The important thing is to love God, love one another and be available for our brothers and sisters in Christ to encourage and build them up.

I once heard someone make an interesting comment about a box of Legos. He said Legos can be constantly gathered together, but it only takes shape to represent the desire of its creator when it is assembled. Then it is ready to perform the function it was created for. So is the body of Christ. Therefore, those who put all their eggs in the basket of Sunday church, it is they who have truly forsaken the assembling of themselves together. They are constantly gathering, but never really assembling.

Let me point out that I am not against church or those who attend. My wife and I were part of the weekly service for years, but over the past few years we have found that for us, it makes more sense to be outside the walls of religion and seek meaningful fellowship each day with our brothers and sisters in Christ rather than continue to sit in a pew listening to a select few participate.

Whether in a building or not, whether in a home, restaurant, or wherever the Spirit leads us, as followers of Jesus we are the body of Christ, a priesthood of all believers. Rather than an organized meeting in a defined place, it is a daily lifestyle of loving God and loving one another, and everyone is equally important and active parts of the body.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer for Done with Religion as his views fit perfectly with those that are shared on this site. He and his wife have been outside the walls of religion for fifteen years. He enjoys writing about his experiences and thoughts, and he wants to encourage others who are going through the religious deconstruction process. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

God Must Be Perfectly Good Humanly Speaking Or Not Worth Believing In!

by Mike Edwards

It takes faith to believe God exists since there is no visible evidence, but surely most assume any God worth believing in must be perfectly morally good. Dennis Prager argues according to the contemporaneous ancient Near East Babylonian story, the gods destroyed humanity because humans made so much noise keeping the gods awake. I couldn’t believe in such a God because of my understanding of genuine love required by a loving God.

God must be good intuitively! 

If there is a God, they must be perfectly loving. Many of us left organized religion, not God, because claims about God’s character was contrary to our deepest moral intuitions. It doesn’t make sense why a Creator wouldn’t love the same way we humans believe we were seemingly created by a supposed Creator to love (aka goodness). Even those who try to defend God’s violent ways in the Bible agree, or they wouldn’t attempt to rationalize why a supposed inspired/infallible Book by God reports bad actions contributed to God. We can’t always understand what perfect love is – to help a drug addict or let them hit bottom – but even the Bible assume we can understand God’s perfect love through human lens – “be perfect, as your heavenly God is perfect.” (Mt 5:48).

God can only be understood through “goodness” lens anyway

If God is bad or evil at times, we can only understand such actions by comparing/exploring what is good. If God was supposedly unloving, we can only pursue such knowledge by discussing what true love it. It seems we can only rely on human reasoning what is good or common moral sense whether interpreting a Book, judging one’s actions toward others, or understanding what God’s love is like. We know God’s goodness by assuming not bad! 

How do we know what “good” is? 

Parents create/have children to be loved and teach how to love others. An existing Creator surely creates desiring to love and hopes we love others as parents should love their children. We all seem to know the question we ought to ask ourselves – am I loving others perfectly? Self-evident morals aren’t hidden in any Holy Book. We all have an inborn sense of good and evil. We may not always be certain the most loving action, unless my son or son-in laws mistreat women!  There is a reason anyone who justifies selfishness is often friendless.  

Why do some argue perfect human and Godly love aren’t always the same?

The Bible doesn’t always describe God in perfect human moral terms, so may God-believers resort to suggesting God’s actions are sometimes a mystery. Believers assume God must be perfectly good so rationalizations are made. See 9 Reasons To Not Trust The Bible’s Claims About God! Many assume that the entire Bible is approved/inspired by God, so they must explain why the Bible reports God acting violently or destructively. But a Book can’t be the definitive word about God since subject to different interpretations, and we can’t prove God always controlled what the writers understood and wrote about God.

So What….If God Is Good Or Not? 

Why believe in or desire to have a relationship with a God you can’t respect or attempt to understand? Many may reject or resist God if perceived as authoritative versus nurturing. See here. As stated, many of us left the institutional church because leaders kept insisting characteristics of God, according to the Bible, were contrary to our moral sense. Others inclined to believe in God may hesitate because of what God is described by Christians as supposedly being like. God doesn’t send people to a torturous afterlife for choices made briefly here on earth. The majority of people end up believing in the religion, whether Christian, Buddhist, or Muslim, where born. God isn’t a God of chance! God likely gives all a chance now or after death to believe or not. God is exactly who you imagine a loving God is like – unless you’re a selfish human being.  Then, good luck having genuine friendships!

Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like

Yes I Am A Christian….But (My Idea of Being A Christian is Different than You May Think)

by Michael Donahoe

When I say I am a Christian, people usually stereotype me as a Christian that is something different from what I mean.

People tend to equate Christianity with certain beliefs, doctrines and actions. People who are Christian usually believe certain things, participate in certain things or avoid certain things.

Yet, for me, I do not fit into the normal mold of what people think of as Christianity. A few of those things are as follows:

I do not attend church

I do not believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God

I do not believe the world was created in 6 actual days

I do not believe the USA is a Christian nation nor God’s chosen nation

I am not Republican (nor a Democrat)

I do not claim to be evangelical. I really do not even like using the term Christian because of the negative thoughts it creates

I love and accept people, all people, male, female, black, white, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Atheist, LGBTQ. I believe Jesus said to love God and love one another. I believe we all are created in the image of God.

I am patriotic, but not nationalistic. America is not a Christian nation nor is it God’s chosen nation. It is not OK to force religious beliefs on everyone. We are free to choose for ourselves what we believe and who we follow.

I do believe in science

I do believe the Spirit of God lives within us and we are guided by the Spirit not a book

I do believe in the freedom of choice for all people in all matters. We cannot legislate morality nor a particular version of faith.

I believe that my spiritual life and secular life are not separate but intertwined. We are not spiritual one day but secular another. Living each day is a combination of being spiritual and secular.

There are many other topics in regard to traditional Christianity I could cover, but you get the idea. When people hear the word Christian, all sorts or stereotypical ideas come to their thoughts. The main point to think about is based on a Bible verse, by their fruits you shall know them.

Rather than automatically think all Christians are the same, wait a while and watch how they act and treat others. It will be clear soon if they are loving, kind, inclusive and accepting; or if they are judgmental, condemning, exclusive and force their faith on others.

The bottom line is, we all have some type of faith. If my faith does not lead me to love, help, encourage and allow others the freedom to have their own views and faith, then I need to keep my opinion and faith to myself.

Rather than forcing my way of faith on others, my goal is to be Christ-like day by day by being loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, kind, good and faithful. Forcing your faith on others, judging and condemning those who have a different kind of faith or a different view and opinion is not loving and certainly not Christ-like.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer for Done with Religion as his views fit perfectly with those that are shared on this site. He and his wife have been outside the walls of religion for fifteen years. He enjoys writing about his experiences and thoughts, and he wants to encourage others who are going through the religious deconstruction process. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

What is One Main Way To Discern Who May Be Telling The Truth?

by Mike Edwards

We can’t know for sure who is telling the truth when opinions exist on both sides of either religious or political debates. We have to make up our own mind. I admit I don’t always know who is telling the truth, so I am going to answer what trait pisses me off the most. By the way, if you think there is only one rational viewpoint on matters dividing us, please reconsider. I consider it irrational if one refuses to consider an opinion contrary to their own. In religion we have to decide whose view of God to believe – does God condemn gays or not. In politics we have to decide who to believe on matters such as immigration or climate change. Even in science, should we wear masks or not. Afterall, everyone who wore a mask ended up getting Covid. I wrote here several reasons how one might discern who may be more on the side of truth than others.

Question or doubt those that refuse investigation or debate 

One main reason to not trust one’s opinion when they refuse discussion or investigation. Dr. Fauci claimed rejecting him is rejecting science. But science is questioning science (i.e. some drugs approved initially are taken off the market). Religious leaders who claim their views are God’s Word and don’t invite debate – are they afraid to defend their views in public so individuals can decide for themselves and possibly disagree. Theologians who hide behind the Bible (“God said,”) are claiming to be holier than those than disagree with them. When voter fraud is claimed why refuse investigations unless hiding something? Politicians who don’t invite debate – don’t trust them further than you can throw them. Run from those who claim certainty and don’t try to defend their opinions. Why don’t they seek to defend the supposed truth to convince others?

Claiming certainty is a way to avoid investigation 

We must avoid claiming our truth is certain if not universal agreement. Who doesn’t think rape or incest is evil? Adultery isn’t only wrong in the eyes of the betrayer. Assume uncertainty if you have one rational friend who believes differently from you whether it’s about religion or politics. Couples who claim certainty when differences arise are headed toward divorce or a sucky relationship. God-followers and religious leaders seem hell-bent in telling people what they must believe about God according to their understanding and interpretation of the Bible. Politicians who refuse debate of their policies are no different. Religious or political leaders play God (Superior) in the lives of others by claiming to know the truth and we can’t decide for ourselves.

Censorship is a way to avoid investigation 

Free speech is necessary to allow the battle of ideas when certainty doesn’t exist. A preacher can’t claim God condemns gays because the Bible says so. Many of us don’t believe the Bible says any such thing. See here. Most of us believe except true racists that all humans are created equal, not that one’s skin color determines superiority. Yes, the KKK is allowed to state their hate speech on public platforms. I like my chances of winning that argument in the free market of ideas.  I enjoy racists being exposed for their ideas. The only free speech that should be censored is that which encourages others to commit violence toward others. You must peacefully protest without blocking the rights of others to go where they want. You can’t say “any Jew you see should be killed.”

We don’t always know what is truth, so it is important how we openly purse truth 

• If only religious leaders didn’t always claim their biblical interpretation is correct and at least acknowledge literature requires interpretation despite supposed divine intervention. What are religious leaders afraid of if they have the truth?
• If only we listened to everyone’s opinion civilly and sought to discern together what was the most loving action for the greatest good. It’s complicated!
• If only we closely guarded one’s freedom to choose when the possibility exist you could be wrong, rather than calling others heretics or conspiracists.

How Can We have Unity Among Christians?

by Michael Donahoe

When we read in the Bible that we are to put on love which is the perfect bond of unity, we wonder how we go about doing that.

With all the different doctrines, interpretations, denominations and versions of the Bible, how is it possible for us to get along and have unity among the brethren?

It is by love. To put on love is to put on God. God is love and love lives within us. Even in all the differences we can be united in the love of God. Our common focus is Jesus. We can be one in God and still have different views and opinions. Because of the love of God, we can respect one another even with our differing views and opinions, and we can accept each other as brothers and sisters in Christ.

Love will bind us together and allow us to live in peace with one another. Many times, love is pushed out of the way for our own selfish desires. That is when disrespect, arguing, judging and condemning takes over, and it is not a pretty sight for those who profess to follow God.

Unity comes only through the love of God. It is not through religion, doctrines, denominations or Bible versions, but through God alone. The love and power of God through the Holy Spirit looks beyond religion, doctrines, denominations, race, sexual orientation and nationality.

God is love and God lives within us. By allowing the love of God to flow out of us we can look beyond our differences and accept one another even when we disagree.

Only by loving God and loving one another through the power of the Spirit will others see a difference in those of us who are followers of Jesus.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer for Done with Religion as his views fit perfectly with those that are shared on this site. He and his wife, after spending about fifty-five years in the institutional church, have been outside the walls of religion for fifteen years. He enjoys writing about his experiences and thoughts, and he wants to encourage others who are going through the religious deconstruction process. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

If God Changes His Mind, Should We Reconsider What We Think The Bible Guides?

by Mike Edwards

This Post was inspired by a light reading of  The Widening Of God’s Mercy – Sexuality Within The Bible Story  God in the Bible condemns gays, but the father/son scholars don’t tackle the verses claimed to teach that God condemns gays. See here.   The Hays imply even if God supposedly does condemn gays and that is the correct interpretation – God can change his mind to feel differently after what is recorded in the Bible. So, even if you believe the Bible teaches God condemns gays, that may not be God’s attitude today toward gays. Many believe the Bible suggests the husband is the leader of the wife which I  doubt  but anyway, God may change his mind in many circumstances. Since the Bible is used as a rule book in many situations, let’s use the Bible to suggest God can change his mind.

God changes their mind in biblical times, so how about now? 

• “And the Lord regretted that he had made Saul king over Israel.” [I Sam 15:35)
• “And the Lord was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.” (Gen 6:6-7)
• Many know the story of Moses getting God to compromise concerning sparing the disobedient. (Ex 32). When might God compromise with us today what we think the Bible claims in our situation? 

Even God’s laws given are updated and changed 

• “I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not live.” (Ezek 20:25)
• Ex 21:23-25 says “eye for eye” but Jesus updated (Matt 5:39)
• Jesus changed the law regarding the Sabbath (Mk 2:27)
• Exodus 20:24 allows sacrifice on any altar but that then changed to only one location (Deut 12:13-14). (p.55) 

I don’t wish to suggest the Bible should be used as a rule/guide book what to do in your situation since interpretations are infallible, but even in the same culture and times biblical laws were updated depending upon circumstances. What you think the Bible commands you to do, might God sit down and discuss? I know this Post can be used to justify anyone’s evil behavior, but if you think God changes his mind on sexual abuse, think again! 

How does the Bible guide us today?

I think Karl Barth is right: the theologian shouldn’t ask “What the apostles and prophets said, but what we must say on the basis of the apostles and prophets.” (p 4). This supports the idea that even in biblical times God changed his mind and updated laws. Even if you believe the Bible’s writers were never wrong what God thought and that God condemns gays, please consider what God may say today in your relationships with gays, your partner, etc. You may believe the Bible commands capital punishment, but is that what God thinks today in your situation and what you claim about God to others? Using the Bible as a rule book is complicated.

Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like

What Does the Concert Band, the Director and Church have in Common?

by Michael Donahoe

One evening as my wife and I sat listening to one of our grandsons’ play in the school concert band, a thought came to me about church. The band was an example of what the Church should look like. When I say Church I do not mean a building under the direction of a pastor, but a community of believers, each with a part to play under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

There were many people from many different backgrounds playing various instruments. As they played different songs some of them moved to another instrument playing two or three different instruments.

Each participated using the talents they were given. They blended together as a unit when they were under the leadership of the director.

If only one person played and all the others just sat there, we would be missing out on a beautiful sound. Or if each person played what they wanted, separately doing it their own way we would get many people playing different tunes and styles without direction. It would sound terrible.

Even though each individual had their own gifts and part to play, they all kept their eyes on the director who brought it all together in perfect harmony.

As the Church, each of us come from many different backgrounds. We all have a gift, talent or various talents given to us by the Spirit. We have different parts to play, but each of us participates.

Imagine if we all came together and only one person participated. We would be missing out on a beautiful, diverse experience of the complete body participating and using their God-given talents for the good of the group.

Church is not a place to go where everyone sits down and just listens to one person, but it is people who are equally functioning parts of the body under the direction of Jesus, who is head of the body.

Each of us make up the body of Christ, and as we keep our eyes on the director, Jesus, he will bring everything together in perfect harmony for the good of the body.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer for Done with Religion as his views fit perfectly with those that are shared on this site. He and his wife, after spending about fifty-five years in the institutional church, have been outside the walls of religion for fifteen years. He enjoys writing about his experiences and thoughts, and he wants to encourage others who are going through the religious deconstruction process. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

Does God Really Punish Or We Just Reap What We Sow?

by Mike Edwards

Our view of God can depend on how we view God’s role in punishment after wrongdoing. Many portray God as angry and implying God may delight in punishment, yet such punishment seems arbitrary because in reality it seems God lets a lot of evil slide and maybe not your own. One’s motive to push God’s punishment may be to deter evil, but the truth is fear doesn’t lead to life transformations. So says many parents. One must assume God can control everything that happens in the world, if God is in control of punishment. Such a view makes a mockery of freedom. I have a hunch we often just reap what we sow. It is true some sow a lot of evil and reap very little!

Old Testament and punishment

The Flood is probably the grandparent of all stories about God actively punishes. Whether God actually killed most of the human race via a global flood is debatable. Keep in mind ancient literature predating Genesis wrote about local floods in their lands. It is not fabrication if biblical writers used a local flood to illustrate global human problems, as a common literary practice in Ancient Near East times. God isn’t nearly as active in punishing in the New Testament as in the Old Testament. One explanation is that OT writers believed, thus wrote, it was sacrilegious to not express God(s) as all powerful and controlling. This could account for such vast differences in the Old and New Testament accounts of God’s actions.

Biblical example that we simply reap what we sow 

Even the Bible suggests in certain passages sin had its own’s punishment/negative consequences, not that God is going around killing people or choosing when to punish or reward people “Therefore, God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts ….” (Rom 1:24). People sacrificed Jesus on the Cross and weren’t individually punished. The reward for many believing in Jesus was martyrdom.

God’s love is not arbitrary 

No one thinks a loving God plays favorites. If God does actively punish and carry out wrath, God is letting a whole lot of evil in the world slide. God doesn’t love those spared more than those supposedly punished. It is reasonable to believe that consequences for actions serve as punishment and some are more fortunate than others to not suffer for natural consequences of their actions. God isn’t in control of all punishments and looking to pour on at times. I have written here  that God can’t be all-powerful or controlling and be true to God’s nature. Even the Bible claims love does not insist on its own way. (I Cor 13:5) 

How does God view wrongdoing?

One way to understand God’s love is to compare to human love. We all sense what perfect parental love is, even if we did not always experience it. God surely treats rebellion how we think loving, perfect friends or parents of older children ought to respond to wrongdoing. We hate what sin is doing but we don’t seek to pile on. Loving parents try to not personalize their child’s actions. We warn and don’t interfere with consequences. We hope for change before it is too late. God’s love, mercy, and encouragement, not God’s need for punishment, leads to becoming the person we desire to be. God is always empowering and inspiring all to help others. We also don’t have to view an uncontrolling God as not caring and not punishing those who seem to get away with evil, while supposedly not overlooking our own wrongdoing.

Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. He also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like If you wish to discuss anything I have written, you can email me at medwar2@gmail.com

How Do We Produce the Fruit of the Spirit

by Michael Donahoe

In the book of Galatians we are told that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control, against such things there is no law.

We hear about the fruit of the spirit but how do we produce it, and what does it really look like to have the fruit of the Spirit in our lives?

Letting God live from within us and allowing the Spirit to produce the fruit is the only way for us to manifest the fruit of the Spirit in our lives. It is not by our strength or actions. We usually think we can produce fruit by our good works. Unfortunately, that does not work. We cannot produce fruit on our own. It is only by abiding in the vine that the branches will grow fruit. Jesus said ‘I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit’. Apart from him we are not able to produce any fruit of the Spirit. The Spirit of God living within us produces the fruit, which will be a natural by-product of the life of the Spirit within us.

Also notice that we have the fruit of the spirit, not the fruits. When the Spirit is allowed to live through us, each and every fruit mentioned is active and working through us. It is like one gift of the fruit of the Spirit manifesting in nine different ways. We cannot pick and choose which fruit we like or think we need, we have them all.

That does not mean that life is always perfect and we will not have problems. It does mean God is within us and never leaves us. God produces love for others that we cannot give in our own strength. We can have peace and patience when things are going crazy around us.

In the world we live in, most people are not used to being treated with kindness or seeing goodness in others. God’s spirit within produces both, which will make a difference to others when they see us being kind and good to people.

How many of us, in the stressful situations we find ourselves in during a day, can be gentle with others? Certainly not in our own strength.

Being faithful to God is not even in our power, but as the Spirit gives faith it becomes a reality in our lives. Even self-control is not actually self-produced. What it boils down to is Jesus is everything. His Spirit lives within us and produces the fruit that grows and manifests through our lives. When the fruit of the Spirit is manifested in our lives, I think it will look a lot like the life of Jesus.

It is the fruit that God produces in us that others see. It is the fruit that looks good and is becoming to others. The fruit will help others know that God is good, loving and kind. Stop trying to produce the fruit of the Spirit and rest in God. Allow the Spirit to cultivate the good fruit in us so others will see the true love of God.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/ 

If God Is Real Why Then Is God So Hidden?

by Mike Edwards

I had a tumor removed from my brain recently. Please excuse misspellings/mistypes. Not sure brain all there

Many believe in a God or the possibility that God exist. There are understandable reasons often cited as to why people doubt there is a God/Divine Being. Atheists and believer agree – the only God worth believing in must be perfectly loving. If such a God exist, why doesn’t God intervene more with so much evil exist in the world? I have suggested an all-loving God and all-controlling God is an oxymoron. See here. Another reason many may doubt God exist is that a loving God surely is personable, why then doesn’t God reveal themselves more rather than be hidden? What loving parent does that if desiring to be known?

Is it reasonable God stays hidden but may not speak to us demonstratively out of love

Just because earthly parents sometime know and advise what is best for their older child, such advice doesn’t always work out. In fact, overzealousness can lead to one feeling controlled, thus rejecting what is best for one’s own good. God’s awing or overwhelming presence may only lead to fearful obligations to obey than having to trust. The road traveled of learning, reflecting, and not being pressured may best lead to lasting convictions and more meaningful relationships. God supposedly came in person but Jesus’ miracles didn’t obtain the results some may suggest if God would stop hiding. God may not speak to us demonstratively out of love.

Freedom is absolutely necessary for authentic relationships

God’s constant interference and presence could prevent a superior world from emerging. Moral knowledge isn’t hidden. Universal moral outrage over murder, lying, stealing, etc. and an inborn desire to treat others like we want to be treated hints of a Creator’s influence through our moral intuitions. Non-moral decisions are open. True freedom can’t exist if God somehow knows the future and can tell us if our marriage will end in divorce or our job eliminated. See here.  A Creator may not reveal themselves for humane reasons we haven’t thought of. The Bible was more direct communication, but it has been used to force beliefs on others despite subject to interpretation. Uncertainty, not certainly about God, protects against imposing beliefs on others which is not God’s nature. Different opinions communicated respectively can stand together as we continually evaluate the most loving approach.

An unreasonable reason God is hidden……BUT Most who encourage believing in God suggests the Bible teaches one’s destiny in the afterlife is determined by what they believe while here on earth a brief time. The first chapter of Romans is often used to suggest all who don’t believe in God are suppressing what they know to be true. But it seems the biblical writer assumed his audience believed in God but ignored God to justify their evil ways…. “many knew God…they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God” (Rm. 1:21, 29). The writer’s audience simply sought to justify evil ways. Those who believe aren’t necessarily needing a crutch and those that don’t believe aren’t always wicked and unaware of their feelings. Many want to believe in a God but doubt because God is so hidden. How can a loving God possible hold such people accountable for unbelief? But I doubt God does.

Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me” (Jn 14:6). Did Jesus really mean God only saves those who accept Jesus? Keep in mind the majority of people born into this world have never heard of Jesus or had a Bible. This verse could easily be interpreted to mean Jesus’ way of life is the best path toward God. The path to God is through love. (See God After Deconstruction, Oord/Fuller Chapter 9).  Selfishness has no excuse. We Christians need to be less condemning and more open to God’s love and message to people of all religions. A loving God wouldn’t only let Christians into heaven when the majority of people born into this world died without knowledge of Jesus the Christ. Besides, one’s religion or rebellion against a certain religion is often based on the family born into whether it is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. A loving God can’t be a God of chance. No human or spiritual parent brings children into the world requiring their eternal destination is based on circumstances out of one’s control.

I have a hunch God especially loves skeptics!

Most agree an unloving or tyrannical God isn’t worth believe in. A parent obviously loves a child who finds it easier than their others children to accept them and their ways. But we don’t unlove our skeptical children. A greater pain may be when our children ignore us. Spiritual or human parents don’t desire forced love, which isn’t genuine, but hope for consideration and to prove the possibility of a better relationship. Many may not pursue a closer relationship with a God they are inclined to believe in because of what they have heard from others what God is like. Don’t believe everything you hear! God only seeks to love you like you wish you were always able to love others. We all have great parents or at least wish our parents had better loved us in certain ways. This is the God you can believe in to set out to live a purposeful, meaningful live.

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also writes on his own site that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

What Actually is the Bible

by Michael Donahoe

In the gospel of John, it is written ‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God’. And further in that gospel is states ‘the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us’.

To me, this says that when we speak of the Word of God, although many people assume we are talking about the Bible, we are actually talking about Jesus, the Living Word.

So many of us focus on the written word and which version is the true word of God. Yet the verses in John state that the true Word is not a book, but is Jesus who is alive and living within us through the Holy Spirit.

If we were never able to read from the Bible or hear it read to us, we still have the Living Word of God within us to teach us and guide us.

We can learn and be encouraged when we read the Bible no matter which translation we prefer, but we need to remember that the Bible was written by many men over many years. The living Word of God is Jesus who lives within each of us through the Spirit.

We can read the words on the pages of the Bible, but it is only by the Living Word within us that gives life and power to the words we read.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/