Does God Really Punish Or We Just Reap What We Sow?

by Mike Edwards

Our view of God can depend on how we view God’s role in punishment after wrongdoing. Many portray God as angry and implying God may delight in punishment, yet such punishment seems arbitrary because in reality it seems God lets a lot of evil slide and maybe not your own. One’s motive to push God’s punishment may be to deter evil, but the truth is fear doesn’t lead to life transformations. So says many parents. One must assume God can control everything that happens in the world, if God is in control of punishment. Such a view makes a mockery of freedom. I have a hunch we often just reap what we sow. It is true some sow a lot of evil and reap very little!

Old Testament and punishment

The Flood is probably the grandparent of all stories about God actively punishes. Whether God actually killed most of the human race via a global flood is debatable. Keep in mind ancient literature predating Genesis wrote about local floods in their lands. It is not fabrication if biblical writers used a local flood to illustrate global human problems, as a common literary practice in Ancient Near East times. God isn’t nearly as active in punishing in the New Testament as in the Old Testament. One explanation is that OT writers believed, thus wrote, it was sacrilegious to not express God(s) as all powerful and controlling. This could account for such vast differences in the Old and New Testament accounts of God’s actions.

Biblical example that we simply reap what we sow 

Even the Bible suggests in certain passages sin had its own’s punishment/negative consequences, not that God is going around killing people or choosing when to punish or reward people “Therefore, God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts ….” (Rom 1:24). People sacrificed Jesus on the Cross and weren’t individually punished. The reward for many believing in Jesus was martyrdom.

God’s love is not arbitrary 

No one thinks a loving God plays favorites. If God does actively punish and carry out wrath, God is letting a whole lot of evil in the world slide. God doesn’t love those spared more than those supposedly punished. It is reasonable to believe that consequences for actions serve as punishment and some are more fortunate than others to not suffer for natural consequences of their actions. God isn’t in control of all punishments and looking to pour on at times. I have written here  that God can’t be all-powerful or controlling and be true to God’s nature. Even the Bible claims love does not insist on its own way. (I Cor 13:5) 

How does God view wrongdoing?

One way to understand God’s love is to compare to human love. We all sense what perfect parental love is, even if we did not always experience it. God surely treats rebellion how we think loving, perfect friends or parents of older children ought to respond to wrongdoing. We hate what sin is doing but we don’t seek to pile on. Loving parents try to not personalize their child’s actions. We warn and don’t interfere with consequences. We hope for change before it is too late. God’s love, mercy, and encouragement, not God’s need for punishment, leads to becoming the person we desire to be. God is always empowering and inspiring all to help others. We also don’t have to view an uncontrolling God as not caring and not punishing those who seem to get away with evil, while supposedly not overlooking our own wrongdoing.

Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. He also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like If you wish to discuss anything I have written, you can email me at medwar2@gmail.com

Getting Saved Isn’t About Going to Heaven or Hell!

By Mike Edwards

I wrote recently here  what might be the greatest misunderstanding about God and getting saved. Christians often emphasize the main message about God and the Bible is avoiding hell and getting to heaven by saying the sinner’s prayer: “God, forgive me for my sins and thank you for dying on the Cross to pay the price for my wrongdoing.” No such prayer is found in the Bible. Recently, I failed to include the greatest objection below to what I am claiming – that the Apostle Paul, who wrote a lot of the New Testament, supposedly spoke of something similar to the sinner’s prayer. It is important because we may be misrepresenting God’s main message to us.

The main message can’t be about avoiding Hell 

I bet if you ask most non-church people what church people say is important about the Christian faith, they will talk about getting saved to go to heaven to avoid hell. The main message can’t be about Hell which doesn’t literally exist. See 12 Reasons To Believe Hell Is A Myth! There is no word in Hebrew or Greek for “hell,” only possibly words used as metaphors to illustrate that spiritual death is as tragic as physical death. The Apostle Paul who wrote most of the NT never refers to Hell. No prophet in the OT warned of Hell as a consequence for behaviors here on earth.

What did Jesus say about eternal life? 

Jesus never spoke of something similar to the sinner’s prayer to make others feel secure about the afterlife. True, he couldn’t talk about the purpose of the Cross since hadn’t happen, but Jesus message seem to be more about the here and now, not trying to terrify you about the afterlife. When Jesus was asked how to have eternal life, Jesus didn’t speak about a physical destiny but life here on earth. (Lk.10:25-37) Jesus simply answered the question “love God and your neighbor,” speaking more about the quality than quantity of life. Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife.

When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. The main message to the disciples was living a life worth living. When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees, pray, and ask for forgiveness! Jesus encouraged loving God because Jesus knew that leads to loving others.  The above interactions are like when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. He might never see her again. Where was Jesus evangelical spiel?

Didn’t Paul though preach repent to avoid punishment?

It is argued that Paul did say “believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rm 10:9) Paul recognized Jesus’ death and resurrection, but Jesus’ sacrifice was to draw attention to the Good News already proclaimed by Paul – God’s desire to empower unselfish living. Paul preached about the Kingdom of God being here (Acts). Paul did say “the wages of sin is death.” (Rm. 6:23) But Paul is speaking of spiritual death because Paul is still alive though sin has put him to death. (Rm. 7:11) Paul mentions Heaven twice in Romans, yet says nothing about Jesus dying so we can go to Heaven (Rm. 1:18, 10:6).

God wasn’t so pissed to require Jesus’ death than yours

To insist God required Jesus be murdered on the Cross in place of you isn’t Godly or parental love. Google “theological views of Jesus’ death” for many interpretations about Jesus’ death. Did Jesus and the Romans have no choice but to murder Jesus for an unjust cause? Soldiers die for one another because of a cause they believe in. Jesus thought his message was worth dying for. Jesus accepting death than powering over others may be the reason billions have been influenced to live unselfishly. Jesus wanted to change our attitude about God, not to change God’s attitude toward us. What kind of God sees how the world has turned out and doesn’t just say the Hell with it, but instead enters such a world to experience underserved suffering via the Cross to inspire and relate? 

What really is God’s salvation?

Jesus spoke of a life, worth living, empowered by God, for your good and those you have relationships with. I believe Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as deep down you wish you could. I get help from God in pursuing a life with less regrets, of being the husband, father, friend, and man I truly want to be. It’s on God to come through for you if you choose to follow. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us. God’s influence, though invisible, can be the same as a parent who has left this earth that you believed loved you to the fullest. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now with God’s help – a path toward great relationships.  

Getting Saved Isn’t About Going To Heaven Or Hell!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com