All Will End Up Heaven According To The Bible!

By Mike Edwards

I admit the title of this Post is bold. If my title had been “Where Will One End Up After Death?” you may not have bothered to read, assuming I would support common claims about the threat of Hell if you dare to rebel against God. Translation and interpretation challenges don’t guarantee a definitive answer from a Book. Also, biblical writers may not know all about the afterlife because God didn’t speak to them directly. We are free to speculate about a loving God’s character and actions. I have a strong inclination all are going to heaven!

Hell is morally and biblically impossible 

Many who believe God exist agree God has given us moral intuitions to discern evil from good. We don’t need a Book to know sexual abuse or murder is wrong. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible morally or biblically. See here. See here. Humans wouldn’t even create such a place for our enemies. God or humans can’t possibly be happy in heaven if loved ones are tormented after death forever. If God supposedly has such control over happiness, why not use the same power over rebelliousness?

God giving up isn’t divinely possible 

God’s nature doesn’t allow giving up on forgiving. There are consequences in this life and there may be painful reckonings in the life to come, but God can’t stop showing grace. Why would God undergo a complete character lobotomy after we take our last breath here on earth? Is a thief going to enter Paradise but not others with lesser sins because they weren’t next to Jesus hanging on Cross right before their last breath? God’s grace doesn’t depend on whether one has more opportunities to respond to God than others. Even imperfect human parents wouldn’t cut off a child who eventually accepts responsibilities for their actions. 

Turns out even the Bible suggests all will be saved

Skeptic readers may argue that the Bible clearly says only those who believe go to Heaven. One may be surprised that just as many verses imply God will save everyone. David Bentley Hart reminds us of the many verses in the Bible that suggest God will eventually save all. The following verses are Hart’s translation from the Greek as he attempts to not include or add words that may make the reading easier or possible convey a translator’s personal belief about being saved:

Romans 5:18-19

So, then, just as through one transgression came condemnation for all human beings, so also through one act of righteousness came a rectification of life for all human beings; for, just as by the heedlessness of one man the many were rendered sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be rendered righteous 

I Cor 15:22

For just as in Adam all die, so also in the Anointed (Christ) all will be given life 

2 Cor 5:14

For the love of the Anointed constrains us, having reached this judgment: that one died on behalf of all; all then have died

Rom 11:32

For God shut up everyone in obstinacy so that he might show mercy to everyone

I Tim 2:3-6

…our savior God, who intends all human beings to be saved and come to a full knowledge of truth. For there is one God, and also one mediator of God and human beings: a human being, the Anointed One Jesus, who gave himself as a liberation fee for all

Titus 2: 11

For the grace of God has appeared, giving salvation to all human beings

John 12:32

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will drag everyone to me

John 12:47

For I came not that I might judge the cosmos, but that I might save the cosmos

I John 4:14

And we have seen and attest that the Father has sent the Son as savior of the cosmos

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not delaying what is prompted, as some reckon delay, but is magnanimous toward you, intending for no one to perish, but rather for all to advance to a change of heart

Philip 2:9-11

For which reasons God also exalted him on high and graced him with the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend – of beings heavenly and earthly and subterranean – and every tongue gladly confess that Jesus the Anointed is Lord, for the glory of God the Father

I John 2:2

And he is atonement for our sins, and not only for ours, but for the whole cosmos

I Tim 4:10

We have hoped in a living God who is the savior of all human beings especially those who have faith

What about Justice? 

Punishment doesn’t bring back a victim’s robbed memories of the future due to the murder of a loved one. Real justice is understanding your victim’s pain and accepting the harmfulness of your actions. After death God may bring to memory every action of betrayal and how it felt to their victims. The cleansing and educative effect may take longer for some than others. Humans like God may forgive their enemies if they truly regret their actions and seek forgiveness. Justice from a fair, merciful God is possible despite people being given a second chance after death.

What would a loving God do after death here on Earth? 

We don’t know what happens after life here on earth. No one can claim the Bible has the definitive answer. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do.  It is just as reasonable, if not more reasonable, to believe a loving God that is able to create will take forever, if necessary, to save everyone from themselves. God only wants to help you become the person you deep down desire to come. We will fail but God is quick to forgive and help us to get back up. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come.

All Will End Up Heaven According To The Bible!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Why Hell Can’t Be True!

By Mike Edwards

The Gospel or God’s main message has been hijacked! We have been told forever it seems that Jesus’ death on the Cross was to spare us from going to Hell to appease God’s angry about our sins. What kind of spiritual or human relationship is built on fear and avoiding fiery torture. A literal Hell can’t be morally or biblically possible.

Hell is morally impossible

Most who believe God exist agree God has given us moral intuitions to discern evil from good. We don’t need a Book to tell us that sexual abuse or murder is wrong. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t morally possible. We humans wouldn’t even create such a place or destination for our enemies. If God’s goodness isn’t the same as human goodness, God then sometimes isn’t good. God or humans can’t possibly be happy in heaven if loved ones are being tormented after death day after day. If God supposedly has such control over happiness, why not use the same power over rebelliousness?

Hell is an impossible free choice 

For a minute forget about the Hitler example and think of family and friends who don’t believe in God or follow Jesus the way you do. They may score higher on the morality scale than you. One may suggest that God gives one the freedom to choose their destiny after life here on earth. How is it rationally possible for anyone to choose hell/torture in their right mind over Heaven. No one puts their hand in a fire and leaves it there. We would call them insane, not truly free. One is not truly free if they choose Hell. If Hell was true, a loving God would be obligated to make sure one understood this reality. Doing so would make the choice of Hell impossible. 

God can’t possibly believe in Hell

Many who argue for the reality of Hell because of the Bible suggest that same Bible reveals God is all-knowing including knowing the future. I have claimed as others that God’s can’t know the future if freedom is genuine. See here.  If God somehow knew the future, that means God created knowing millions would burn in Hell forever. It may be suggested that is one’s choice, but I argued above no one would freely choose Hell. You can’t convince me that God would ever create a human being if Hell was a reality. I wouldn’t have children if I knew their destination may be forever torture. Why would God?

God giving up isn’t conceivable 

Can God really stop being forgiving? Bible scholars don’t agree whether the Bible suggests second chances after death or not. There are consequences in this life and there may be painful reckonings in the life to come, but God can’t stop showing grace. Why would God have a complete character lobotomy after we take our last breath here on earth? Is a thief going to enter Paradise but not others with lesser sins because they weren’t next to Jesus hanging on Cross right before their last breath? God’s grace doesn’t depend on whether one has more opportunities to respond to God than others. Even imperfect human parents wouldn’t cut off a child who eventually accepts responsibilities for their actions.

The only reason one may believe in Hell because of the Bible 

No one really believes in their belief that Hell is real. If they did, they would never stop convincing their loved ones and friends they will burn forever if they don’t repent. The only reason one might believe in Hell is because they believe the Bible obligates them to do so. The English word “Hell” is a translation of the Greek word Gehenna. Jesus spoke of a place called Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) outside of Jerusalem. Corpse were burned not kept alive. This is how you know interpretations have gone array. They have used a metaphor to push fear to obey and that you are kept alive in the fire to continue burning. Hell isn’t biblical. See here.

Why it matters knowing Hell isn’t real

Hell doesn’t lead to a relationship with God or even changed lives. What kind of relationship comes forth when threatened with endless torture if you don’t obey. Are you close to your parents because of fear, or because they are the kind of people you want to grow up to be like? God isn’t saving you from Hell, but hoping to help you become more the person you desire to be while here on life. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Fear may work temporarily in the religion or political arena, but it can’t last. Jesus came to encourage living a life worth living – not to get you out of Hell.

Credit: That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation: Hart, David Bentley:

Why Hell Can’t Be True!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Can We Really Be at Peace with All

by Jim Gordon

To be at peace with all people, including believers and non-believers, it seems almost impossible in our world today. We have so many different thoughts and ideas, different denominations, interpretations and beliefs and all the different religions. It makes you wonder how it is possible to be at peace with everyone?

The dictionary describes peace as freedom from disquieting or oppressive thoughts or emotions; harmony in personal relations.

I have been thinking recently about how some Christian people act towards those who see things differently. I do not know why we can be so mean at times. We feel we have to prove our point to others and stand our ground when it comes to doctrine and interpretation of the bible. I am not sure why we feel it is our job to be the morality police. Why do we feel the need to force our views, beliefs and interpretations on others?

Rather than base our lives on following doctrine and interpretation, we are to follow the example of Jesus. He said to love God and love one another. There is no way to be at peace with others without loving them. We cannot love others without the Spirit of love living within us.

Often times when we meet new people, or even when we get together with current friends, if we could just see the person as a human being without any labels, knowing that God loves them, it is easier to be at peace with them. The problem often seems to be when conversations get onto the subject of politics or religion, things can get divisive. We quickly forget the good things and only focus on our differences. It is very sad to let politics, religion or a number of other labels cloud the good things we see in people.

I think what God is saying about being at peace with all is that we are to live in harmony with others, not allowing any oppressive thoughts or emotions to take control of our feelings toward them. In other words, we live in love. Just because someone does not interpret the bible the same way we do or go to the same church we do or does not go to church at all, we should realize that in regard to other believers, we are all wanting to love God and do what is pleasing to God. We are to accept one another in love and respect the fact that God is working in different ways in people. Just because it is not what we are used to does not mean it is not of God.

In regard to non-believers, we do not need to condemn them or force our beliefs on them. We are to let them see the love of God by the way we treat others. They do not need someone beating them down or twisting their arms to get them to believe like us. We are to love them as they are and let the Spirit do any work that needs to be done in their lives just as the Spirit does in our lives.

If we believers could understand that we are responsible for ourselves in the way we live for God. We are not responsible to live the way others do or the way others think we should. We are to allow the Spirit to work in our lives and follow the Spirit on the path we are on.

Our responsibility is to do what Jesus said, love God and love others. We are to accept them for who they are and pray that the Holy Spirit will teach us and guide us in the way we are to go. We are not responsible to force others to see things the way we see things. We are to love one another and accept one another as they are. Only by living in love can we live at peace with all.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

How Do You Know What God Is Telling You To Do?

By Mike Edwards

I write Posts often with two groups in mind. One group is those who have attended a church for years and either continue to go or have stop attended due to disagreements what God is really like.  The second group is those who are inclined to believe there is a God but have not been church-goers. The former group is more familiar with the pressure to know God’s will in your life. The latter group may wonder how do you know when God is directing you, when they hear others say “I had to do it because that’s what God told me to do.” 

Does God really control all that is going on? 

It is natural to think an all-knowing, powerful God has special insights into future outcomes. But to say God knows the future suggests a predetermined future which makes freedom nonsensical. God can’t know if your marriage will end up in divorce or your new job position will be discontinued in the future. God joins us relationally in a free, unknown future. God’s plan can’t be a detailed blueprint but a general one to set us free to love. God hopes as we do that our actions make a positive difference in the world. One can rightly question if God supposedly knows the future, why does God hide it from me? What parent does that if suffering could be avoided?

God may not speak to us demonstratively out of love

Just because earthly parents sometime know and advise what is best for their older child, such advice doesn’t always work out. In fact, overzealousness on the parent’s part can lead to a child feeling controlled, thus rejecting what is best for one’s own good. God’s awing or overwhelming presence may only lead to fearful obligations to obey. The road traveled of learning, reflecting, and not being pressured may best lead to lasting convictions and more meaningful relationships.  

What is God telling us to do? 

I know for a fact a loving God is telling me to love others like I want to be loved. That isn’t always clear what action to take, but neither can it be for God unless God has predetermined the future. Many decisions are obvious wrong – murder, abuse, adultery, etc. God doesn’t have to speak. Many decisions though aren’t black and white, even for God. Do we speak up about one’s behavior or risk driving them further away? God joins us in considering risks to change the world for better. God feels the disappointment we do when things don’t work out for the best. 

Influences in our life don’t have to be audible or certain. My parents aren’t alive, but I still sense their influence. God can’t tell us either that our decisions will work out. God deals with a free world also. God is hoping with us that our decisions will make for a better world. Don’t we sense God’s influence when we have thoughts to be the perfect partner, parent, or friend we desire to be deep down. God isn’t as hidden as we might think. God gives us the freedom to make decisions, and I understand the consequences of immoral decisions. God is in our uncertain life with us.

How Do You Know What God Is Telling You To Do?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Who The Heck Would Want A Biblical Marriage?

By Mike Edwards

I think the Bible can become an idol depending on one’s view of the Bible. See here.  We are encouraged to have a biblical business, family, life, church, or marriage. But we can’t prove God dictated or controlled the biblical writers’ pens or reeds (I can google) to record God’s thoughts perfectly. The Bible is God’s story beginning with Israel and culminating with the life of Jesus that we don’t possess in any other document, but it is important to read the Bible with a questioning and open spirit. Do we really want biblical marriages?

In the Bible marriage was between two men

In the Bible marriage was typically a contract between two men – the father of the man and the father of the woman. A payment was often made by the father of the woman (you guessed it) to the father of the man. Also, there was no Hebrew word for “husband,” or “wife.” These words were added in translations of the Bible later. See here.  In a patriarchal culture a woman was basically viewed as property – first to her father and then to the man given to by the father. Was this really God’s ideal?  I’m not a woman, but I doubt women want to go back to biblical marriages must less before they could vote!

Then, in the Bible marriage often was not between just one man and one woman

It was a very common marital arrangement in the Old Testament for men to have multiple wives. Most are familiar with the stories of two supposed spiritual giants in the Old Testament – Kings David and Solomon. Who hasn’t heard David was a man after God’s own heart. Not always the God I know! Solomon had hundreds of women at his disposal. Polygamy was never condemned in the Bible. Do we really want to go back to biblical marriages? My wife would argue one husband is enough of a cross/burden to carry!

In the Bible marriage was more about procreating than romantic love

There is not a Hebrew word for husband, wife, or even marriage.  You don’t read of marriage ceremonies or honeymoons. In Hebrew it’s more about the man “taking” the woman. You never of course read a woman taking a man.  An example of this is Genesis 29:23 – “he (Laban) took his daughter Leah and brought her to Jacob, and Jacob made love to her.” It may sound like it but this wasn’t the father giving the daughter for prostitution. One could argue in the Bible the woman was more like property given to the man to have children and build his legacy. If this is your cup of tea, you are reading the wrong blog.

What if a woman’s man dies?

We have laws and stories in the Bible where men were required to impregnate his sister-in-law if her man died. (Deut. 25:5). I don’t read where the woman has any say so in the matter, in case she didn’t want to have a child with her brother-in-law. My wife’s sisters probably feel the same way. 

Even in the New Testament women had few rights

It doesn’t seem much changed from OT times to when Jesus lived. When Jesus advised that a man could only divorce a woman for adulterous reasons, the disciples said “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” (Mt. 19:9-10). They seemed to think marriage is about men’s rights. Also, though Jesus didn’t exactly say so, you mean to tell me Jesus didn’t think women could divorce for the same reason? This passage has multiple interpretations, so we are free to speculate what an ideal marriage is in God’s eyes.

What kind of marriage does God want? 

Personally, I don’t want anything to do with biblical marriages. And biblical marriages didn’t happen in churches administered by a preacher-type. The wife and I need a redo. Should we stop this practice?  I admit I can’t read God’s mind. But somehow, I know how I ought to treat others especially women. I don’t want any father telling a woman who she must marry for money. I certainly don’t want my parents telling me who to marry. They struck out. I have been married 41 years with three great kids. Turns out she is the saint, not their beloved son. Read the Bible for possible wisdom, but seek to have a godly marriage instead of a biblical marriage.

Who The Heck Would Want A Biblical Marriage?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com 

Do You Feel Guilty Only Praying To God In A Crisis?

By Mike Edwards

I admit I am writing this Post as a confession/comfort. Do you ever feel guilty because you don’t have regular prayer times with God, or you often only formally pray when times are tough. Maybe God isn’t offended. Maybe God cares more about the relationship than obligatory “sit downs.” The best kind of human relationships are spontaneous than because of rigid formalities.

God can’t just wave a magic wand

It is important to remember God must account for freedom to be loving. It’s not that we didn’t pray enough with the right words and behaviors so God will answer. God can’t make one’s partner willing to stop drinking without violating their freedom. God can’t interfere in a job matter without impacting all who are interviewing.

What about healing prayers? 

A lot of prayers asking for healing are obviously not answered. I doubt God is just being stingy or some beg God better. I doubt miracles are arbitrary. Conditions in our body may not always be right. Various biological and environmental factors are involved such as cells, organs, etc. If God wouldn’t take away your human freedom, it may not be a stretch to say God has to account for nature’s freedom as well. Miracles can happen when God’s uncontrolling love aligns with countless factors known and not known. God surely intervenes by all means when circumstances will allow. I am not sure we even have to ask. God is always loving.

Prayer isn’t God waiting to be asked to love

God may wait for our invitation for personal help to be more the person we deep down desire to be, but God is tireless in doing all they can for others – what parents isn’t – but God desperately seeks our help to change the world. God can’t singlehandedly change a free world without our help. But the truth is it can rain on the righteous and the sun can shine on evil in an uncontrolled world (Mt 5:45).

Prayer isn’t more talking but acting 

Relax! God is an omnipresent Spirit. God already knows needs before spoken. We don’t have to pray to inform God. Be careful. Don’t let prayer be a substitute for acting. It is easier sometimes to pray for someone than take cooperative actions with God. This is the most common way that God answers prayers – with the help of others. Rather than praying your friend’s partner stop drinking, which is harming their family, see if your friend would rather you say something to their partner. When you know two friends are in conflict, consider speaking to the one wrongly denying any wrongdoing. God longs to help us help others. You don’t have to pray to God to act.

So, what is prayer?

Prayer is more of a relationship than just talk. I’m not more moral than others; maybe I am a more needy-son-of-a gun. I tend to interact with God when writing for my blog, when listening to a spiritual podcast, etc. Now, when I am faced with suffering or a challenge, you better believe I have more formal prayers. Prayer is a relationship with God in whatever way seems more relational to you. God is always listening. God speaks to us mostly through self-reflection as God seeks to empower us to make decisions based on our gifts and aspirations. God speaks when we hear: I love you; I forgive you; I won’t abandon you. Seek a natural relationship with God in your own way. Conversations don’t have to be formal prayers.

Do You Feel Guilty Only Praying To God In A Crisis?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

How Do We Know Our Truth Is The “Truth?

By Mike Edwards

It is common to hear Christians claim truth is discovered through the Bible. One may claim their version of biblical truth and says things like “how is this hard for people to understand – this is what God said” or “if you back down from this issue you are abandoning what God has said is the truth.” The truth is one’s interpretation of biblical truth could be wrong. See here.

Truth isn’t just found in a Book

You telling me that people who’ve never had a Bible (majority born in this world) don’t have some ideas of what a loving Creator is like. We all are in the same boat because bible-folks have to translate the Bible. Christians leaders often claim we must be guided by biblical principles. They assume their interpretation is correct. It is common to hear one argue “The Bible says” without adding “according to my understanding.” The truth is contrary biblical interpretations exist for many moral issues. Hell, we can’t be sure if there is a literal Hell according to the Bible.  See here.  No, one can’t just always follow their own heart!

Where is Truth found?

Moral truths are not determined by a Book, popular opinion, or by a few in power. We all have an inborn sense of good and evil. There are universal values that most rational people agree on such as murder, stealing, even equal justice for all. We must have open discussions which laws are the most caring for the greater good concerning non-universal matters such as immigration or climate policies. Most religions agree the overriding moral guide is to love others like you want to be treated. Belief or lack of belief in God doesn’t give you an excuse to not treat others like you want to be treated. Personal beliefs about God can be shared in the public arena without imposing or assuming we all agree what biblical truths are.

Truth in relationships is perfection 

What actions in relationships should guide us? Perfect ones of course. We may not always know what perfect love is, but we somehow know we ought to love others like we want to be loved. A parent’s perfect love surely is the same as God’s love. I don’t know one person, whether a church-goer or not, that doesn’t think any God worth believing in must be a perfect, loving God. Even atheists would agree if they thought a Supreme Being existed. The Bible even implies such an idea: “Be perfect, therefore as your heavenly Parent is perfect” (Mt. 5:48). We still must decide what perfect love is, but God surely didn’t create us to be totally clueless.

Imagine a world …. 

• What if Christian leaders didn’t always claim their biblical interpretation is correct and at least acknowledge literature requires interpretation “according to their understanding?”
• What if we examine all Books about religion to discern what seems the most universally true? What are Christians afraid of if they have the truth?
• What if we listen to everyone’s opinion and sought to discern together what was the most loving action according to the circumstances?
• What if we didn’t push God on everyone but encouraged them to consider the possibility that a God exist and what actions a perfect, loving God might seek to inspire?

How Do We Know Our Truth Is The “Truth?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Can We Stop Saying We Know What Biblical Truths Are?

By Mike Edwards

It’s frustrating when I hear Christians, especially leaders, claim we must be guided by biblical principles. They assume their interpretation is correct. It is common to hear one argue “The Bible says” without adding “according to my understanding.” The truth is contrary biblical interpretations exist for many moral issues. Hell, we can’t even agree on if there is a literal Hell according to the Bible. See here.

It matters what we claim “biblical truths are! 

Biblical scholars don’t agree the Bible condemns same-gender loving relationships. It is claimed God condemns gays, when they have no choice in attractions as straights. A biblical worldview doesn’t necessarily condemn gays. See here. Try being gay and having a relationship with God when told “we love you but hate your sin.” Many claim the Bible says that women can’t fulfill the same roles as men in the worship or home setting. This mentality can filter down to our wives, daughters, and friends and stifle their gifts. Scholars don’t agree that Paul, a main writer of the New Testament, thought roles should be chosen based on gender than gifts.  See here.

Truths aren’t hidden in a Book

Self-evident rights aren’t hidden in the Bible or any Book. We all have an inborn sense of good and evil. No reasonable human being doesn’t respect the universal compulsion to treat others like we want to be treated. Who but the guilty don’t agree sexual abuse or murder is evil. We must have open discussions which laws are the most caring for the greater good concerning non-universal matters such as immigration or climate policies. Personal beliefs about God can be shared in the public arena without imposing or assuming we all agree what biblical truths are.   

Uncertainty can lead to acting more loving 

Continually evaluating the most loving approach is better than claiming certainty and being wrong. See here.  Please stop demonizing by moralizing. God-followers must stop claiming their supposed biblical truth is morally superior among the religious or non-religious. God may not speak to us demonstratively out of love. What we do with the communication we have, then lack of communication, may be the bigger challenge. Jesus had a 24-7 relationship with twelve men, yet they struggled to believe His words in person. Jesus’ influence seemed greater after He left this world. The road traveled of learning, reflecting, and not being coerced may best lead to lasting convictions and more meaningful relationships.

Can We Stop Saying “Biblical Worldview”?

Can We Stop Saying “Everything Happens For A Reason”!

Can We Stop Saying “Love The Sinner, Hate The Sin”!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

The Church and LGBTQ

by Jim Gordon

Unfortunately, we know many people have been treated wrong within the church system. Some more severe that others, but none of it is good.

I think one of the groups that seem to be affected most by this are those who are LGBTQ. I have seen this group of people treated rudely and like second class citizens in many churches where they should find love and acceptance more than anywhere else. God said to love our neighbors, he did not say to love only those with whom we agree.

Even in the churches that are actually welcoming, LGBTQ people are often not accepted and allowed to participate fully within the organization or hold certain positions. They are welcome to come in and sit and listen so hopefully the church can change them, but they are not welcome to come in and participate in any way within the church program.

Christian people will deny rights and services to LGBTQ people based on their Christian beliefs, unfortunately even including fellow Christians who are LGBTQ. Even government office holders can refuse certain services and basically get away with it because they say it goes against their Christian morals. As a Christian, I say these things should not be. This is nothing like the example of Jesus.

Labels are placed on many people, gay/straight, black/white, male/female, christian/atheist, American/foreign/immigrant. Yet behind those labels are human beings who were created in the image of God. They are loved and accepted by God and we are told as followers of Christ to be known for our love for one another.

I feel for those who are LGBTQ. It hurts to see people who were created and loved by God be rejected and abused by those who claim Christianity. I think it is time to look past the labels, look past personal feelings and accept people just the way they are, because they are created and loved by God.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

We Must Rethink The Bible When It Comes To Gays!

By Mike Edwards

I am going to focus briefly on the main issue as to why I think Christians must change how they view the Bible. There are many reasons. Women suffer violence because some claim the Bible says God wants women submissive to men in ways men are not similarly submissive to women. It doesn’t matter all men don’t take a mile when given an inch. Enough do! But perhaps even worse, Christian leaders condemn gays for being gay because the Bible supposedly does. I wish I had known 40 years ago what I know now!

It doesn’t matter even if you think God inspired the Bible!

It is natural to assume inspiration means God agreed with what the biblical writers claimed about God. If writers wrote God condemns gays according to the Bible, then Christians must do the same. I doubt God inspired everything written in the Bible about God, so the writers might be wrong about God. But even if you believe God inspired every word in the Bible and agrees with all written about God, not all biblical scholars interpret that Bible condemning monogamous gay relationships. See here. I understand condemning unfaithfulness according to the Bible, but we don’t need a book for such condemnation. But claiming God through the Bible condemns gays is subject to biblical interpretation. Your interpretation may be wrong, so stay openminded.

Being gay isn’t a choice!

Many Christians, worse leaders, are quick to judge in God’s name when one admits they are gay. Listen to the Podcast of one man’s journey: Blue Babies Pink by B.T. Harman. Hopefully, it will give you compassion as to the struggles growing up gay. We condemn stealing, murder, and gayness in the same breath. Stealing is a choice. Being gay is not a choice. Listen to their stories before judging. Stop with “love the sinner, hate the sin” speeches. It is impossible to feel loved and accepted when such words are used. Even if you believe the Bible condemns gays, do you tell someone overweight that “I love you but I hate your behaviors.” Look in the mirror for most of us. I’m not overweight but my belly fat is an issue. Anyway, most gays will tell you this is not a choice they have. This is who they are. Why would anyone choose a life of hostility and bigotry?

Please!

I am begging you to not condemn gays because the Bible supposedly does. Christian leaders – show some courage and change your stance. You may not agree with my interpretations, but I will admit my interpretation could be wrong if you will. Listen to each gay’s story and love them like you would want to be loved if you had the same journey. I believe if we at least stopped claiming certainty in God’s name regarding gays or women’ roles in marriage or in church, we would have more open conversations and reveal more the loving God we believe in.

Dear Reader: If you still think being gay is a choice and you must condemn gays in God’s name, I beg you to listen to Blue Babies Pink podcast episodes or if prefer more reading than audio see blog Blue Babies Pink

We Must Rethink The Bible When It Comes To Gays!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com