Is It A Good Thing Certainty About God Is So Damn Uncertain?

by Mike Edwards

It can’t be proven God is real or not. If God is who believers claims, God should be capable of speaking to the hearts of either believers or skeptics. Billions that are convinced there is a loving God cannot be declared definitively irrational or delusional. It is not irrational either to ask if God is real, why doesn’t God clinch the argument by making their Presence obvious?

Claims of certainty is suspect 

Just to be certain, total certainty is an illusion because even if God is Truth, we still have to discern what is Truth. For example, there is disagreement if God of the Bible desires preachers or priests be women or gay. Literature requires interpretation. I am convinced so many people are leaving the institutional church, but not God, because of lack of open dialogue. It’s hard to be relational when you are so damn certain!

Is it God’s fault the Bible isn’t clearer?

Even if God dictated the Bible, interpretation is still required. It is often said we best know God according to “biblical truths.” The truth is contrary biblical interpretations exist for many moral issues. See here.   What we do with the communication we have, then lack of communication, may be the bigger challenge. Open discussions can steer us away from demanding “supposed truths.”

Uncertainty doesn’t have to lead to chaos or lawlessness 

I don’t know any reasonable God or non-God person that doesn’t respect the golden rule in relationships. Certain laws are just common, moral sense. Who doesn’t believe physical or sexual abuse is wrong? Ask a terrorist if you can rape their partner. Immigration laws can be discussed as which are the most caring for the greater good. Different opinions, expressed without physical or verbal aggression, can stand side by side as we continually evaluate the most loving approach.

In God’s defense – intuitions and an open future 

God may not get enough credit for communicating through our moral intuitions. Criminals often don’t defend their actions; instead, they deny committing such crimes. Only a perfect or good God is worth believing in! The best way to talk about such a God is comparing to perfect human love. A Creator surely loves in ways God’s creations sense they ought to love others. Problems begin when we stray from common moral sense and insist on our understanding from an inspired Book.

It is natural to think an all-knowing, powerful God has special insights into future outcomes to avoid problems. To say God knows the future suggests a predetermined future which makes freedom nonsensical. God’s plan is not a detailed blueprint but a general one to set us free to love. God can’t tell you if the person you want to marry won’t end up betraying you or the job you take won’t end up being phased out. God joins us in an open future. God deals as much with uncertainty as we do, as not even an all-powerful God can know a free, undetermined future. 

God’s directness didn’t always inspire belief

God dropped manna from the sky and separated the Red Sea to escape one’s enemy, but the Israelites still did not believe or at least put their total trust in God. God even came in person but Jesus’ miracles did not obtain the results some may suggest if God would stop hiding.

Where has certainty gotten us?

It is logical to suggest we can’t be totally certain what an invisible, inaudibly God thinks, but supposed certainty according to a Book has led to justifying slavery and other atrocities. Certainty has led to condemning gays though scholars, who accept Scriptures as authoritative, don’t agree the Bible disapproves of same-gender loving, monogamous, consensual relationships. Women, though gifted, are denied entrance into the priesthood or pastorate in God’s name. Uncertainty not certainty about God, unless talking about obvious evil such as beheading infidels, protects against imposing beliefs on others in God’s name. Honest, open dialogues allow continually evaluating what a loving God is like.

Uncertainty about God may be out of love

God’s awing or overpowering presence may only lead to fearful obligations to obey. Relationships that require more faith and trust due to the unknown may reach greater heights. Is our love in human relationships greater when we have to trust than know for certain what the future holds together? When parents push their agendas, even if in their child’s best interest, they may resent or rebel against coercion and never turn back. If God communicates in less demonstrative ways, this may allow for heartfelt choices. The road traveled of learning, reflecting, and non-coerced choices may best lead to lasting convictions. Moral knowledge isn’t hidden. Amoral decisions are open. Maybe God speaks to us in non-dramatic ways out of love!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Many Christians Are Known for What They Are Against…Unfortunately

 It May Be Better to be Known for What They are For

by Jim Gordon

It seems that many Christian people are more known for what they are against rather than the good things of God they are for.

I am becoming increasingly aware of the fact that I do not want to be known as someone who is always against something. Whatever that may be, against this sin or that sin, this group or that group, against a particular denomination or Bible version, all the different ideas and subjects we can come up with that end up taking away our main focus, our love for Christ.

Be Known for Love

Jesus told us in the New Covenant that His commands were to love God and love others. We do not have to agree with everyone to love them. We obviously all have our convictions of right and wrong, yet we do not have to focus on those convictions or try to prove our reasoning to others. We are told to love others no matter what. We are not responsible for converting people, that is the Spirit’s job. We are told to love them.

When Jesus walked the earth, He did not spend a lot of time with the religious people. He was out with the sick, despised, neglected, and sinners of the day. Those who the religious people would not want to be around.

Obviously, God calls us to follow Him and that is going to be in different ways for each of us. Yet to spend more time arguing, condemning, trying to prove our interpretations of the Bible, pointing out people’s mistakes and shortcomings, does not help promote showing the love of God to others.

The Grace of Christ

When we begin to understand the freedom we have in Christ, and start living through grace that Christ provided, we can be free to love and accept all those we come in contact with each day. We can show them the love of Christ by allowing the Spirit to live through us.

We do not need to worry so much about who is right and who is wrong. Remember, do not always be against something. Be for Jesus. Be for love. Be for following Jesus daily by loving God and loving one another. Let Him be the central focus of your life and allow His love to flow out of you and touch those around you.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

We are the Church, His Body

by Jim Gordon

Ephesians 1:22,23 — And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

We talk a lot about the body of Christ, and most often describe it as church. Yet we need to know what true church is, which is His body. It is not a building. It is not someplace we go. Christ is the head of all of us who are saved by grace. We the people are the various body parts that make up the church.

I do not see separation in this statement. I do not see denominations, buildings and formal services trying to get people to come to us. I do not see places based on doctrine. I see a living, active group of people going out into the world day by day in the love and strength of God. I see a united effort seeking to show the love of God to all we meet each day. I see people looking to Jesus and the Holy Spirit for truth and guidance. No more looking to a man/woman or a group of elders for teaching and guidance. Christ is our head and the Spirit is our teacher.

1 Corinthians 3:16 states, do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? The Old Covenant days of the temple are over. According to the New Covenant, we are God’s house, His Spirit lives within us. So many people say the organized church is where God lives, but this verse tells us that God is more personal than that. God can no longer be contained within a building. We are His dwelling place.

Each one of us who are saved by grace are now the temple of God. It’s so hard to get away from the thought that God is up there somewhere, or that we have to go to church and wait for God to show up. This kind of thinking is now obsolete. Remember, the Spirit lives within us, we have the mind of Christ, the Kingdom of God is within us.

My thought is that it is time to stop arguing over doctrine and interpretations. It is time to stop looking to other brothers and sisters whom we elevate into a higher position in an organization. It is time we realize we are all kings and priests and able to teach and give a word to uplift one another. The Spirit lives within us and we should allow God to live through us daily as we go out into the world as his body and be the Church, showing His love to all people.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Why Are People Leaving God Or The Christian Faith?

by Mike Edwards

Researchers such as John Marriott and Josh Packard have written on why people are leaving the Christian faith or the institutional church but not always God. Believers must stop claiming people are leaving to justify lifestyle choices. Talk to them! Claiming that those that leave never believed in the first place is suspect as well. There are many more reasons than what I suggest, but perhaps some of the main reasons are true below.  Let’s listen rather than judge!

The Bible may be the biggest reason for wanting nothing to do with God

Christians sometimes argue we should trust “biblical truths” about God. The term is misleading because differing biblical interpretations exist for major moral issues. Certain supposed truths, such as the traditional understanding of Hell, may not be true. Also, the truth is we can’t prove God somehow magically controlled the biblical writers’ thoughts and pens. The writers may not have always understood God perfectly. Uncertainty though isn’t always a bad thing. See here.

Many feel compelled to choose science over God because a literal interpretation of Genesis demands God couldn’t have used evolution in the creative process. A fallible Book may actually lead to knowing God better because surely a Creator influences us through our moral intuitions, consciences. Claims about God, other than evolution can’t be true, can lead to rejecting God.

Certain accusations about God can lead to atheism or leaving God

According to the Bible it has been claimed God approves of putting men over women in leaderships roles at home and in the church. This has encouraged historical dominance by men. People condemn gays, despite their moral intuitions, because God supposedly rejects same gender loving relationships according to a Book. But scholars who accept the Bible as authoritative defend the Bible not showing partiality to men over women and that God doesn’t condemn gays. See here. Since we can’t prove our interpretation is the right one, common, moral sense is not the enemy.

Why doesn’t God intervene more with evil in the world? 

A God who can prevent evil but doesn’t is no different than a parent who stands by and watches their child being physically or sexually abused. Answers like “everything happens for a reason” doesn’t suffice for many of us. God’s nature requires their love to be unselfish and uncontrolling. Controlling love is a contradiction in terms. Freedom to love fully may have to include the freedom to hate fully. There may be plausible moral reasons as to why evils exist and God doesn’t intervene. 

When Christians leaders and laypeople act ungodly 

Another obstacle Christians put in the way of others interested in pursuing God is hypocrisy. If you treat people like dirt, I doubt you are being influenced by God. Most folks though understand no one is perfect. But if Christians fail to admit or confess their faults, I doubt others want to discuss your relationship with God. Parents who don’t do as they say should be quiet. 

How to avoid being a hinderance to those seeking God 

Don’t accuse those who have no inclination to include God in their lives being less moral. If we judge others at all, let’s challenge one another to love others as we want to be loved. What can we say to those wanting to talk about God or spirituality? Suffering and a loving God co-existing often makes no sense. Have an open discussion. Discuss worrisome claims made about God that seem unlikely. Our intuitions aren’t the enemy. Finally, if you want others to consider your God because God has made a big difference in your life, walk the talk. Seek forgiveness when wrong.

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

The United States and the Kingdom of God

by Jim Gordon

We hear a lot about Christian Nationalism lately. I had never thought much about it before, but with all the talk about it in the news, it is quickly becoming a popular topic.

I have to say, I love my country. The United States is the only country on earth I would prefer to live in, although it certainly is not perfect. Yet the United States falls way short compared to the Kingdom of God.

The problem seems to be that we hear more and more about some Christian people wanting to get officials elected that will make laws and force supposed Christian values as laws of the land.

It seems many Christians are making more out of the kingdom of the United States than they are the Kingdom of God.

I recently read an article about a new bible called The God Bless the USA Bible, in which the constitution, bill of rights, declaration of independence, pledge of allegiance and the words to the song God Bless the USA are written inside. It also has an American flag on the front cover. No different than having a pastor or celebrity autograph a bible, putting a specific country’s national writings in the bible is no good and completely out of place.

For some reason, many of those involved in the Christian church seem to think that America is a Christian nation. They seem to think that America is God’s chosen nation and they need to force biblical values on everyone.

The fact is that America is not God’s chosen people. It is not a Christian nation, but made up of people from all faiths and religions. God does not just love the people of the United States, but God so loves the world. He loves all people, all nations, all faiths.

What happened to seek first the Kingdom of God? What happened to the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount on how to live for God and how to treat others?

In Christian Nationalism, America itself seems to be the center of attention and hope for the world rather than Jesus. It seems to me that people are trying to make America into an idol and trying to force Christian precepts as the law of the land. This should not be.

It was extremely hard to watch the events of January 6 where people illegally stormed the Capitol of the United States and caused damage, injuries and even death. Even worse, many of them were carrying Christian flags, Christian slogans and were seen praying and thanking God for such an event. There certainly is no love in any of that, and no caring for others.

It seems many put more emphasis on political power in the United States and making Christian rule the law of the land than they do following the example of Jesus by loving all people and focusing on the Kingdom of God.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Do You Wish To Be Closer To God But Not Happening?

by Mike Edwards

Honestly, I don’t know all the reasons one may be more inclined to want a relationship with God. A belief or unbelief in God is hardly a personality flaw or makes one more or less moral. I grew up believing there was a Creator. I was also taught many views of God that I now hate. I have no idea why I didn’t rebel against the whole idea of a God as many understandably have.

We can’t prove God exists or doesn’t exist. Either belief requires faith. If a perfect, loving Creator does indeed exist, it seems intuitive that understanding perfect human love is how to understand God’s love. Are misunderstandings about God a hinderance to those inclined and wanting to feel closer to God? Since God doesn’t speak to most people, we can only discern what God is like by examining our moral intuitions, our consciences. We aren’t always certain how to best love, but most of us would agree we ought to love others as we want to be loved.

Understandings of God can shape attitudes 

We can only be as close to God as our mental images of God allow. We may not pursue God more because we assume certain claims made about God are true, or God is like the poor role models we have had who claim to represent God. The God often portrayed by others condemns gay people, shows partiality toward men over women despite the history of men abusing power, and God supposedly created Hell to torture people after death if they don’t discover the right beliefs before death. Many claims about God just can’t be true if God is good. See here.

Why doesn’t God intervene more in suffering? 

The problem of evil and suffering is a main reason people indicate why they don’t believe in a good God or can’t get close to God. A God who can prevent evil but doesn’t is no different than a parent who stands by and watches their child being physically or sexually abused. Answers like “everything happens for a reason” doesn’t suffice for many of us. Maybe even an all-powerful God can’t prevent evil that leads to so much suffering. If evil is some grand scheme God can control, why does the Bible say God hates evil so much. Does God hate God?

Controlling love is a contradiction in terms. God’s nature requires their love to be unselfish and other-empowering. God cannot fail to give freedom to others, including those who do horrific things to others. Absolute freedom is necessary for authenticity in relationships. We could accuse God of not creating the “most loving” world, if God wasn’t uncontrolling. There may be plausible moral reasons as to why evils exist and God doesn’t intervene. 

Pursuing God despite challenges

Do you want to believe more in God? I am not sure there is anything to lose in beginning a journey of faith if the desire is to live life with fewer regrets. Personally, the biggest reason for being a God-follower is the inspiration and encouragement I sense in striving to be a better human being. If God is real, they should be able to make their case with each individual. Do examine if claims you believe about God are true. God must be a perfect lover, or they are a God not worth following. I am convinced the world is dependent on partnerships with God for a better future and world.

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Marriage and Being One with God

by Jim Gordon

The institution of marriage is such a great comparison to life with our Father. I think we often miss some good points about marriage that directly relates to life with God. So many times we do not associate marriage with Kingdom meanings.

Actually, marriage is a shadow of spiritual things. Ephesians 5:31,32 states, ‘for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church’. The church being mentioned here is not a building or an organization. The Church are the people who are one in Christ. It is not a weekly meeting, it is a living organism made up of those of us saved by grace. I also believe that just because husband and wife are used by the writer in this verse, it also means any two people who love one another and commit to one another because of that love.

I find it amazing that we are considered to be one with God. It is hard to imagine that the Spirit of God lives within us. Jesus said when he left the earth that he would send us another comforter. Through his Spirit, he came to make his home within us and he is constantly with us.

In John 17:21 Jesus is making a request of the Father about us, asking that ‘they may all be one, even as You Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me’. Seems to me it is truly a marriage made in heaven.

Now this is not saying we are God, but we are one with God. The best way I have found to make sense of this is to think of marriage. When two individual people fall in love, make a commitment to love each other and live together, the bible says the two are joined together as one.

Does that mean that the spouse becomes their partner, that they somehow become the same person? No, both people remain individuals, yet they live as one. Same with us and God, we are still the person He created, yet because God loves us and we love him, he has made his home with us and His spirit lives within us. We are one with God.

We always think of God sitting on a big throne, way off in heaven somewhere and that one of these days we will go and meet Him and live with Him forever.

The thing is, that is not what His written word tells us. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit, God’s physical dwelling place on earth. His Spirit dwells within us and He will never leave us nor forsake us.

We do not have to wait to a future time when we live with God in some far-away place. We are living as one with Him in His Kingdom right now because the Kingdom of God is within us. We are his temple, his dwelling place and each of us are equally important parts of his body.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Should We Judge A Person By Their Character Or Beliefs In God?

by Mike Edwards

I am not suggesting God-folks become “judge” freaks. I am reacting to the claims of many that the Bible was written so that people must have certain beliefs to avoid Hell and God’s wrath. Many scholars now recognize that the Bible’s main message is expressing God’s desire to have a relationship with each and every individual in this world to face inevitable challenges. See here.

If judgment is necessary, shouldn’t we judge one by their character rather than their color, gender, religion, or beliefs in God? It’s hard to know why some believe in a God and not others. Neither is hardly a personality flaw. I doubt a loving God plays favorites, giving some the feeling to believe and not others. If God is real, they are big enough to make their case with each individual. But it is a universal principle, except for the selfish, that we ought to treat others like we want to be treated.

It is a myth that those who don’t believe in God are rebellious or in denial

It just isn’t true that those who aren’t into God deny reality to justify their immorality. Not my friends! Some Christians’ morality is suspect! Let’s not accuse those who put their faith in God as needing a crutch or accuse those who question the reality of an invisible God as desiring to excuse their actions. If wrong to doubt God exists, Christians sin if they doubt God in tough times.

A good God surely doesn’t judge one according to their religion

God isn’t a God of chance! John Hick wrote: “…in the vast majority of cases, probably 98 or 99 per cent, the religion to which anyone adheres (or against which they rebel) depends upon where they are born. When someone is born into a Christian family, they are very likely to become a Christian, whether practicing or nominal; when into a Muslim family, very likely to become a Muslim; if into a Buddhist family, to become a Buddhist – and so on round the world” (Who Or What Is God, p. 73). Some misunderstand God due to certain claims made by Christians. See here.

God-folks and Christians please…….

Let’s stop judging others who don’t share our same beliefs in God. I was taught as a child there was a Creator. I was also taught many views of God that I now hate. I have no idea why I didn’t rebel against the whole idea of a God. Let’s encourage others to consider what kind of person they want to be deep down or wish their parents or friends were. One’s belief and desire for help is between God and each person. My story is I am a better husband, father, and friend than I normally would be because of the insights, encouragement, and forgiveness that I sense from my Creator.

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Thoughts and Prayers Are Not Enough

by Jim Gordon

There is a very common saying used in regard to the violence and killings that have been making the headlines. It is heard on TV, online and in the newspapers. The saying is ‘our thoughts and prayers are with you’.

It actually sounds really nice, but unfortunately that is the problem, it only sounds good yet does nothing to help make a difference or to cause change.

So often people say this because they do not know what else to do. I certainly believe in prayer asking God for peace and comfort for the people involved. I also believe in seeking guidance from God for things that we can do that will help make a change.

Many people use this saying because they do not think they are able to do anything to make a change, and often they do not want to make the effort to make changes. So they make themselves feel better by saying our thoughts and prayers are with you.

In James 2:16 we have a similar situation when people would say “go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet they did not give what was necessary for the person in need, and what good was that? This falls right in line with James 2:26 which says, for just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Obviously good works do not earn our salvation, but good works will be a result of our salvation. To put it another way, we can say that love without works is dead. Saying you love someone but doing nothing to put that love in action is not real love.

Using good sounding words usually only makes the one saying it feel better. But putting action to our words can make a difference and truly shows love and concern to those who are hurting.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Could Our Claims About God Turn People Off?

by Mike Edwards

I don’t write to push God on others. I am convinced God is big enough to make their own case with those seeking more of a connection with their Creator. I just know God has made me a better husband, father, and friend by their influence. I enjoy discussing my journey with those so inclined. Even if it turns out God doesn’t exist, what have I lost by living a life with fewer regrets.

One might argue the biggest obstacle Christians put in the way of others interested in pursuing God is hypocrisy. If you treat people like dirt, I doubt you are being influenced by the God I know. Most folks though understand no one is perfect. But if Christians fail to admit or confess their faults, good luck discussing your relationship with God with others.

Claims I consider false, made by Christians about God, may be the greatest problem. It is said:

• Evolution can’t be true and God couldn’t have used evolution in the creative process
• Women can’t be pastors or priests and wives should be more submissive to husbands than husbands should be to their wives
• God condemns gays who are naturally attracted to those of their same sex and God forbid they get married
• God is going to burn in hell forever those who deny God here on earth Most humans wouldn’t even justify such torture for their worst enemies. To Hell with those who grew up in a family of another religion that believed in the golden rule
• God before creation elected some to be God’s children and the rest can freely go to Hell
• God can control evil, despite creating freedom, thus in reality God controls how much each suffers
• God can magically answer your prayers and if God doesn’t, you must have some hidden sin or not praying the right words
• God can tell you to love your enemies but supposedly God can command the killing of women and children as in the Old Testament. Maybe the writers didn’t understand God fully at the time
• If you are an atheist or not all-in about God, you are simply being rebellious to justify living selfishly
• You don’t really love God if you don’t attend the institutional church on a regular basis

It is claimed the Bible is all about avoiding Hell rather than God desiring to have a relationship with you here on earth to face challenges inevitable in an imperfect world.

Do you doubt any of the above claims? Most if not all of the above beliefs come from one’s understanding of a Book. It is seldom admitted Christians disagree in good conscience about the above claims in the Bible about God.

Besides, many act as if it can be proven that God controlled or approved all that is claimed about God in the Bible, that God somehow magically download their thoughts and words into the writer’s brain.

Do you wish you could get more into God but certain claims are a problem? Don’t believe everything you hear. God surely gave us a brain and moral conscience to decide evil from good. If God is evil in any way, that is a God not worth believing in!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com