Believers and Church Attendance

 

by Jim Gordon

I remember when I was young, I was in a church service just about any time the doors were open. My whole spiritual life depended on whether I was at church or not. If I did not go, I felt guilty and made sure I was there the next time.

I was always active and participated in many church activities. I felt it was my duty and responsibility to do all I could for the church. I felt that was the only way I could serve God and do what pleased Him.

After many years of being in the organized church system, my wife and I became disillusioned with the religious organization and became a part of ‘The Dones’. We no longer attend a traditional or organized church, and no longer put any hope or trust in religion.

Does this mean we no longer think it is right to be part of a church? Not at all, yet for us, we are satisfied no longer being part of it and we are happy with the decision we made to leave. Yet, that does not mean we expect everyone else to think the same way. We have several friends who are satisfied with the church system and want to continue to attend services.

In our case, after leaving the organized church we have noticed a feeling of separation between church goers and non-church goers. After all the years we spent in the organization and all the friends we made, once we left, we noticed the struggle many people have to overcome a feeling of us and them. Obviously, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ and there should be love and acceptance between us no matter if we attend church or not.

If you still feel drawn to the weekly organized meeting, I do not see anything wrong with it. Although we do not believe the church system is designed as God intended, there were many good things that came out of our time being involved. If you are going to be a part of a local church, keep in mind some important facts.

When going to church, you are not going to God’s house. God does not live in buildings made by human hands, but He builds His Church from living stones, which is us.

The Bible is not to be held in the same regard as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The written word is inspired by God but written by men. All the translating men have done over the years, and men deciding which books are inspired and which are not, make it pretty clear that the bible is going to be flawed.  It is clearly stated that Jesus is the living, inerrant Word of God. The written word is a guide to lead us to Christ, but as Jesus told the Pharisees in John 5:39, You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me. They put the scriptures (written word) above the Living Word (Jesus).

The pastor is not God’s mouthpiece. He or she is only a brother or sister in Christ who is to walk alongside us to encourage and build one another up. We have the Holy Spirit within us who is our teacher and guide. We need no one else. It is good to hear other opinions and ideas, yet it is the Spirit that is to be our teacher and guide.

Bringing the tithe into the storehouse is not giving money to the church, and is no longer a requirement. We give from love as we determine in our heart to give. If you give at the church you attend, you are not giving to God but to support the organization and pay the bills.

Sunday is not the “Lord’s Day”. Every day is the day the Lord has made, and no particular day is more important than another.

When we are told not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together, it is not talking about an organized church meeting. It is talking about loving and accepting one another, and depending on one another. It is supporting and encouraging one another on our daily walk with God and one another. We do this in many different ways each and every day, not just on one particular day.

When you go to church, do not fall for someone telling you God is going to show up and the Spirit is going to fall on this place. God is everywhere and the Spirit fell upon mankind 2000 years ago. The Spirit of God is within us and with us all the time. He is not sitting on a throne up in heaven waiting for us. He goes with us each and every day, everywhere we go.

Realize that worship is not singing a few songs, raising your hands when the worship leader tells you to and reading a few scripture verses together. Worship is daily praising God, trusting God and letting Him be Lord of your life. To worship God in spirit and truth involves loving Him with all your heart, soul, strength and mind.

And do not give way to a prideful spirit, thinking you are more spiritual or a “better” Christian because you went to church. Going to a service is a choice, not a requirement and you are no better if you go, and no worse off if you do not go.

Remember, each of us are living stones and equal parts of the body. We are the Church and Jesus is the head of his body. As his Church, we are to show God’s love every day to everyone we meet. If you want to attend a local group of believers there is nothing wrong with that. Enjoy meeting with other believers, enjoy the atmosphere but remember you are the Church, you have the mind of Christ and the Spirit of God lives within you. We are to go about our daily lives under the leading of the Spirit, loving God and loving others.

So, do not look down upon those who have left the organization as backsliders or who have walked away from God. Do not look at those who still attend church as stuck in a man-made institution and following doctrines and interpretations of man. Remember that we are brothers and sisters in Christ and each of us are loving God and doing what we feel is right and best at this point. We should be loving and accepting of one another and let the world see the love we have for one another. As it reads in John 13:35 by this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Why Don’t More Who Believe In God Pursue God Intensely?

By Mike Edwards

The majority of people believe there is a God, but I don’t sense God is a major focus with that majority. I’m not making a moral judgment. Many not keen on God treat others as well or better than us God followers. It’s just that many God followers believe their relationship with God has made them a better person. We are convinced if more had a closer relationship with God, this could make for a better world. Do God followers create obstacles that push others away from God?

God-followers make faith in God too complicated 

Many Christians insist on certain beliefs or saying a magic prayer to be a true follower. It’s said you can’t just believe there is a God; the Devil believes in a God! But the Devil was committed to opposing God. I’m not convinced the majority have such a commitment. Even the Bible in one passage doesn’t declare faith a set of beliefs but hope in what you can’t see. (Heb 11:1) Why can’t a God follower be one who hopes/believes in a good God and seeks help being the person they deep down desire to be? If you are a butt according to friends, I still suggest going in with God.

God-followers make dogmatic claims about God according to the Bible 

The Bible is used to condemn gays and oppose women priests or preachers. But biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about these and other moral issues.  See here. See here.  Biblical scholars don’t even agree a literal Hell is a reality in the Bible. See here.  Even if our interpretations were infallible, we can’t be sure the biblical writers always knew or portrayed God accurately. God gave us a brain. Our moral intuitions are not the enemy.

The Bible is used to claim non-Christians can’t go to heaven. The majority of people born into the world didn’t have a Bible or knew of Jesus. Most people accept or rebel against a certain religion based on the family born into whether it is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. A child sexually abuse by their father may struggle to accept a God who is most often betrayed as our Father in Heaven. No human or spiritual parent brings children into the world requiring their eternal destination be based on circumstances out of one’s control. A loving God can’t be a God of chance! 

God-followers make the Bible an idol for worship 

You don’t have to believe the biblical writers always got God right. Many insist on a literal interpretation of Genesis, to deny that God could have used evolution in the creative process. Don’t reject God because you believe in evolution. No one was there in the beginning. As mentioned, you don’t have to believe in Hell or that God condemns gays or is bias against women. Don’t disregard your moral intuitions in discerning what God is like. See RETHINKING THE BIBLE

God-followers rationalize away why God doesn’t intervene more in evil and suffering 

We say “everything that happens is part of God’s plan” to supposedly protect God’s all-powerful character. We claim God is a mystery to justify God’s evil is sometimes good. Crazy talk! Love cannot insist on its own way. (I Cor 13:5) A good God’s love must be uncontrolling, not manipulative, etc. A God who supposedly can prevent evil but doesn’t is no different than a parent who stands by and watches their child suffer. Evil and suffering in the world may be because God can only intervene when there is human cooperation. See God Can’t by Thomas Oord.

God-followers insist you must believe in miracles or Jesus’ resurrection to be a follower

I don’t know if all the miracles recorded in the Bible really happened or not. I wasn’t there. I don’t doubt the historical accounts of events in NT times, but you may. Jesus didn’t ask the disciples for certain commitments or unshakable belief to follow Him. Some of the disciple didn’t believe Jesus’ resurrection talk until having physical proof. If you saw someone die on a Cross and alive days later, you may believe too. I doubt Jesus rejected those who didn’t instantly go all-in. If wanting to live for the Devil, then don’t follow Jesus.

God-followers insist you have to go to church to be a follower 

Many are done with religion or church but not God. The Church can be a great place of encouragement for like-minded people, but Church can be like politics in today’s world. There is lack of open and meaningful dialogue. I am tired of the cancel culture in church or the public arena. I’m not anti-science or heretical because I disagree. I got tired of being preached at where I couldn’t ask questions directly to leadership when disagreeing with opinions taught. Being so damn certain all the time is hardly relational and fails to recognize reality – biblical scholars don’t disagree what the Bible says about issues that impacts millions of lives. 

God-followers as a group are poor role models

We are all hypocrites, but God followers should at least admit and do something about their failings. Clearly Christians don’t get along as more and more churches and denominations keep forming that creates division not unity. Christian opinions should be able to stand side by side as we continually evaluate the most loving way. It’s hard to make a big impact in the world alone. A Movement succeeding at loving others like they want to be loved maybe can change the World!

God-followers often have hidden agendas in their relationships 

Who blames others for avoiding spiritual conversations with God followers? I hate to admit I use to have a hidden agenda with those outside the church. I was taught God’s good news was saving people from Hell so they could get into Heaven. I was wrong according to Jesus. See here.  I am afraid the ship may have sailed for those on the fence about God, trusting us to have open conversations. I will never stop hoping though. My focus is trying to lead a life where actions speak louder than words.

Maybe taking a leap of faith is worth it

If God claims to love and guide us, God should be up to your challenging God to prove they are worth following.  Don’t believe everything others claim about God. If interested in being the person you want to be deep down, you may be able to do it on your own but I need all the help I can get. Through God’s influence I have experienced God’s encouragement to continually strive to be a better man, husband, father, and friend or at least better than if on my own. I am convinced believing in a good God and pursuing a godly life is not in vain!

Why Don’t More Who Believe In God Pursue God Intensely?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Is It Wrong to Question Things About God?

by Jim Gordon

As I move through life outside the walls of religion, I have found myself being more comfortable with questions about God. Do you do that too?

Growing up in the church, I remember the feeling of having questions but was afraid to ask. I knew people would question my faith or tell me I was back-sliding so I kept my mouth shut. The issue was that as time went on, the questions kept popping up and I finally began to realize that questioning was not wrong.

As Christians, we have been taught that we need to have the answers. Study to show thyself approved meant you must have an answer for everything people come up with so you can prove your beliefs are right.

I truly believe God accepts us, questions and all. I am hoping that one day I will have more answers, mostly for my own sake and not necessarily to defend my beliefs.

I think the modern-day church and religion in general do not like questions, at least not hard questions. Especially questions that make us wonder about the basic beliefs they teach. They like to have all the answers, and answers that fit into their particular belief and doctrine.

In his book ‘Dying to Religion and Empire: Giving up Our Religious Rites and Legal Rights’, Jeremy Myers makes a statement that is oh so true: “And as is the nature with questions, asking hard questions rarely leads to answers, but only to more questions”

I think God is much bigger than what the church makes of him sometimes. They try to fit everything into a box and do not like people asking questions that require out-of-the-box thinking.

It seems to me the spirit within, the spirit of truth, brings up questions that the religious system taught us and we always just accepted. Now, rather than suppressing these questions, I have allowed them to surface and truly seek God for guidance.

A few years back, Mick Mooney posted an article on Facebook, part of which says: “But who has the faith to ask questions with the intention of seeking the answers to them? Who can let their foundation be not a doctrine or dogma that must be defended, but Christ himself who needs no defense? For it is those who have their foundation solely upon Christ, who can walk in their faith without fear of questions, but rather they walk in their faith knowing that God is lighting their path with questions, and it is these very questions that are paving the path that the Spirit of God is guiding them upon”.

If you have been feeling guilty for having questions, I have found it best to put that feeling aside and keep asking the questions. That is the best way to continue growing and learning in our walk with God. Even when we do not get the answers right away, or if ever, we should continue to be asking and seeking the truth from the Spirit who lives within us. There is nothing too difficult for God; there are no questions or doubts that will turn him away from us or keep him from loving us.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

My Top Posts Of 2021

by Mike Edwards

The Good News couldn’t be about escaping a fiery, torturous God if such a hell isn’t biblical. What do the Gospels claim the Good News about God is?

What Really Is The Good News About God According To The Bible?

Well-meaning people passionate about God say things like “it’s all part of God’s plan” or “everything happens for a reason.” Is evil and suffering really some grand scheme by God?

Can We Stop Saying “Everything Happens For A Reason”!

We can’t prove God inspired the Bible or God didn’t. Are there good reasons to error on the side that God didn’t inspire all of the Bible?

Why We Must Argue The Bible Is Not Inspired By God!

Many are rightly disheartened about God when more prayers are unanswered than answered. How does prayer work and why bother?

Why Bother To Pray If It Doesn’t Work!

A loving God wouldn’t only let Christians into heaven when the majority of people born into this world died without knowledge of Jesus the Christ. One’s religion or rebellion against a certain religion is often based on the family born into whether it is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. Is God really a God of chance?

What Does God Think Of Non-Christian Religions?

A loving God couldn’t possibly condemn gays when they can no more choose who they are attracted to than straights can? Who chooses to be gay when one has to hide their sexuality because of bigotry and hostility?

What Does God Believe About Gays?

Jesus-followers in the first century had a radical impact in their world and centuries to come. Why aren’t such followers having more of an impact today?

What Reforms Are Necessary In Christianity?

A threatening God, or threatening parents, hardly helps break away from bad habits or behaviors we long to change. What kind of God is more likely to encourage positive change?

It Matters If Your God Is Nurturing Or Authoritative!

My Top Posts Of 2021

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

My Way is Right

and Everyone Else is Confused

by Jim Gordon

For those of us who attended church for any amount of time, we find that there are often people who are acting and responding in ways that are very judgmental and condemning.

Especially when it comes to the gay community, atheists and those of various religious groups and denominations that differ in doctrine from what we think is right. Many of us Christians have a hard time accepting people who think differently.

We would rather fight and defend our interpretation and doctrine and prove our Christian moral way of living rather than show the love of Christ and accept people the way they were made.

I do not understand why we feel the need to try to prove our point and why we have to make sure everyone knows that the way we follow God is the only right way.

A lot of us cannot even accept and associate with other believers from a different denomination. So many people say their version of the bible is the only true version or their type of church is the only true church.

I get so fed up with the pride and arrogance of some (not all) groups of Christians who think they have it all figured out and their way is right. They seem to think that you had better believe like they do or they want nothing to do with you.

Even some Christians in the same church, those who have been good friends for years will turn on you if you leave their church. How many times have you been involved in a church you really enjoy and the people are loving and kind only to find once you leave the group you never hear from any of them again?

Though no longer within the institutional church, I had been in the system for well over 50 years so I know what I am talking about. I am not out to bash the church but it does aggravate me to see people who are supposed to show the love of God to all people, yet act so unloving and judgmental to people who think differently. Fortunately, not every church or Christian group is like this but certainly it is the norm for a lot of them.

Why is it that so many Christian people are so mean and condemning to gay people? Why is it we see atheist as our mortal enemy? Why do we reject the interpretations and beliefs of other Christians who attend a different denomination, or, God forbid, who do not go to church at all? Jesus, who is our example, was not like that yet many people did not grow up in church and did not read the bible. Due to this they do not know what Jesus was like. They only know that we who claim to follow Jesus act in such a mean, unaccepting and unloving way.

We need to remember that behind every label we put on people there is a human being. No matter who we are, what we believe, no matter what our lifestyle or our feelings about God, we all are deserving of love and acceptance. Just like each of us who are now Christians were loved and accepted by God even before we knew anything about Him, we should be loving and accepting to everyone we meet because we may be the only Jesus they see.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

How Can We Know It Is God Guiding Us?

By Mike Edwards

Reliable God followers speak of God guiding us. I am not talking about “God guarantees you prosperity” types who are living off your funds. The Bible does say that we are guided by God’s Spirit (Jn 14:16-17; 16:13) rather than by a Book or Scriptures. Many suggest God’s voice obviously isn’t audible but like a silent whisper, clear mental impression, or “we just know.”  Color me a skeptic. I don’t just know! How do we go about discerning God’s guidance?

God can’t make future decisions for you

It is natural to think an all-knowing, powerful God has special insights into future outcomes. But to say God knows the future suggests a predetermined future which makes freedom nonsensical. God’s plan can’t be a detailed blueprint but a general one to set us free to love. God can’t tell you if your partner won’t end up betraying you or your new job won’t end up being phased out. God joins us in an unknown future. God surely desires we choose the wisest path known at the time based on past experiences, current circumstances, and future aspirations.

God doesn’t really have to speak to us about moral decisions 

It is only intuitive that a Creator loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. What rational being doesn’t know we ought to love others like we want to be loved? Many decisions are obvious – murder, stealing, adultery, etc. is wrong. Even if God was with us in person, God doesn’t have to speak if a decision is clearly moral. Many decisions though aren’t clearly moral.  God joins us in an unknown future in taking risks to change the world.

Uncertainty can be a good thing

We all want God to communicate in certain terms. God supposedly came in person but Jesus’ miracles didn’t obtain the results some may suggest if God would stop hiding. God’s awing or overpowering presence may only lead to fearful obligations to obey. Isn’t our love in human relationships greater when we have to trust than know for certain what the future holds together? The road traveled of learning, reflecting, and not being coerced may best lead to lasting convictions and more meaningful relationships. God may not speak to us demonstratively out of love. 

Personally speaking – how do I know it is God’s voice?

I don’t know if it’s God’s voice! Am I a spiritual loser? I don’t meet my own expectations morally much less God’s, but God is still working on me. But I hang more with God than most. Writing is the same for me as conversing with God. For the past 40 years I often write up to four hours a day. I attended church at least weekly for over forty years. I talk to God a ton while exercising walking almost daily. I have learned I don’t need to be certain what God is telling me. God has given me freedom to make decisions, and I understand the consequences of immoral decisions.

Doesn’t God guide us through unspoken influence?

Influences in our life don’t have to be audible or certain. My parents aren’t alive, but I am still influenced by them in my decisions. God can’t tell us that our decisions will work out. God deals with a free world also. God is hoping with us that our decisions will make for a better world. Don’t we sense God’s influence when we have thoughts to be the perfect partner, parent, or friend we desire to be deep down. I sense God’s encouragement to continually strive to make the best decisions I know at the time. Our pursuit of a godly life is never in vain!

How Can We Know It Is God Guiding Us?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

When Will God Show Up?

by Jim Gordon

Those of us who were brought up in church were taught from an early age that God is up there in heaven somewhere, looking down on us who live here on earth.

When we would have a special meeting or a revival service, I can remember the pastor telling us that God was going to show up and the spirit would fall.

Why is it we are told that God is up there and we are down here? Why are we told God may show up now and then when the conditions are right? Why would God only show up at certain buildings and certain times?

The Bible states that God sent his Spirit to live within us all the time. The Kingdom of God is within us. Jesus prayed in John 17 that we would be one as he and the father are one. God now lives within us since we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. We are merged together with Him. We are one with God as Jesus is one with God.

When two people marry, God says they become one. It is the same with God and us. When we put our faith in him and accept his free gift of grace, we become one. We are no longer separate, but we are one with God. That does not mean we are God, but we are merged together as one. We are the temple or house of God. The Spirit lives within us.

We have to get the religious thinking out of us and begin living the truth. God is not up there somewhere, separated from us. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. God is within us. There is no separation, no waiting on God to come down. We do not have to follow Christ, we walk with him because he is within us.

We do not have to wait until Sunday to go to a building for God to show up, that is not his house. We are the body of Christ, each of us are equally important parts. We are his dwelling place, each and every day. We are one with God.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com 

Lies About God!

 By Mike Edwards

“Lies” is a strong word because I readily admit no one can prove what an invisible, inaudibly God is truly like. I am reacting to those who claim they know the “Truth” and don’t readily admit their interpretations and understandings of the Bible aren’t necessarily infallible. Most agree the only God worth believing in must be loving and perfect. Let’s have open-minded discussions what perfect love looks like. We can disagree but please don’t claim certainty according to a Book subject to interpretation. See link at the bottom of this Post for further elaboration in a brief Book I wrote.

God can’t create a place such as Hell!

God can’t condemn gays for being gay!

God can’t favor men over women for certain roles in church or in marriage!

God can’t only let Christians into heaven!

God can’t be for terrorists who deny freedom of belief!

God can’t control evil and suffering!

God can’t arbitrarily answer your prayer and not others’!

God can’t be a moral hypocrite who says “do as I say not what I do”!

God can’t be mysterious if wanting to be known!

God can’t be an angry, egomaniac!

God can’t be a hidden agenda proselytizer!

God can’t know the future while creating freedom!

God can’t be a Jesus killer!

God can’t be a Bible-worshipper!

Lies About God – Don’t Believe Everything You Hear!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

We Have A Hope Within Us

But Do We Force It On Others

by Jim Gordon

As followers of Jesus, we have a hope within us that is positive. We have a hope of living in fellowship with God, living within the Kingdom of God now and in the future. Because we have this hope, we are often times told we have to share this with others. Have you ever felt guilty because you did not say something to someone about Christ? Do you feel obligated to speak your mind about sin and forgiveness? Do you feel it is your duty as a Christian to force every opportunity into a chance to tell someone about salvation?

Quite frankly, I disagree that we are required to force any conversation or any friendship into a time of evangelism. I agree that some people have the gift of evangelism and should be using that gift to the fullest, all under the guidance of the Spirit. I also feel that not all of us need to be forcing the issue with those we come in contact each day.

As Christians, we are told to love God with all our heart, soul, strength and mind, and to love others as ourselves. When we live our lives each day under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the love of God, the way we act will be a witness to God’s love, much more than any words we can speak out.

Anyone can speak words…words of condemnation, words of how we should live for God, words against particular sins, but words themselves have no strength. It is the daily life we live allowing the love of God to show through that makes a difference. When we consistently live what we believe, it has more impact than thousands of words.

We need to remember that it is the Holy Spirit that convicts and draws people to God. It is not our job to be condemning people and trying to prove to them that they are sinning against God.

It is written in the Bible that we should live a quiet life, work with our hands and be ready to give an account of the hope that is within us.

1 Thessalonians 4:11, 12 – Do all you can to live a peaceful life. Take care of your own business, and do your own work as we have already told you. If you do, then people who are not believers will respect you, and you will not have to depend on others for what you need. (New Century Version).

1 Peter 3:15 – Through thick and thin, keep your hearts at attention, in adoration before Christ, your Master. Be ready to speak up and tell anyone who asks why you are living the way you are, and always with the utmost courtesy (The Message).

Notice we are told to be ready to speak up when asked. Go about your daily routine, minding your business, living a peaceful life, but be ready at all times to give an answer about salvation and God’s love when someone asks. Only when the Holy Spirit is leading the opportunity and the words will it make an impact on people.

By living in this way, and not forcing our views on others, the words we say will have more meaning to those who are curious enough to ask what the hope is that we have within us.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com