God Can’t Stop Your Suffering And Evil

By Mike Edwards

It is reasonable to ask why a loving. all-powerful God wouldn’t stop suffering that serves no good purpose. Please don’t tell rape survivors or a tortured loved one that God had a good/hidden purpose for not intervening. It is true some suffering may eventually serve a good purpose just as an addict hitting rock bottom. Any human parent that has the power to prevent a rape, murder, sexual assault and doesn’t isn’t truly loving. Why would we judge God, who is supposedly all-powerful, any differently if a Creator surely created us to love like them?

God can’t be all-powerful logically 

Most who have grown up in the institutional church have been taught that God is all-powerful. Logically, how can God be all-powerful and humans have some freedom/power? It makes no sense to say God can exert all power and creatures can exert some power. Even the Bible doesn’t claim God is all-powerful and can do anything. God can’t tempt others (Jas. 1:13). God can’t lie or be unloving. God can’t make one believe or freedom would be a farce. 

In defense of freedom

It is not logically possible for God to create freedom unless there is the possibility of love or hate.  I don’t know of any human parent who brings children into the world not desiring their children freely reciprocate their love as opposed to being forced. Without freedom we could accuse God of not creating the very best world where only true, authentic relationships can develop. Freedom allows human to develop qualities of moral character that cannot be created initially.  Freedom cannot guarantee a pain free universe.

God can’t be all powerful and be loving

Perfect love can’t be controlling for explaining why God can’t intervene in suffering. This may be an unsatisfactory explanation to many – but better than some rationalizations given. A parent may think they know best for their adult child, but interfering in a child’s life could make them even more rebellious. I am suggesting maybe God can’t control some evil because God’s very nature is love and true love is uncontrolling. Controlling love is an oxymoron. Even the Bible claims love does not insist on its own way (I Cor 13:5).

Typical rationalizations to defend what God doesn’t intervene in suffering:

• It is claimed a mystery how God can allow evil but not be evil. Humans don’t get a free pass if they can stop evil but don’t. Some claim all evil eventually leads to good as if some grand plan by God. Hardly! Ask sexual abuse victims or family members of murdered victims.
• We sinners have no right to question a Holy God. This is not the moral of the story of Job
• God doesn’t have to be fair because They are God! It is nonsense to suggest God requires impartiality in us but not of Themself (James 2:1) 

No, God doesn’t plan or control tragedies in your life 

• God doesn’t plan for you to be unable to have children if you desire to be a mom or dad

• God doesn’t plan for your body to be wrecked by cancer

• God didn’t want you sexually or physically abused as a child

• God didn’t want your partner to leave you by wanting a divorce

• God didn’t want your loved one murdered or severely injured in a car accident

• God didn’t want you let go from your job

What about miracles and God not being all-powerful?

I admit I don’t have the best explanation for how God can do miraculous things – against natural laws such as bringing Jesus back from the dead – and not be all-controlling. I am convinced miracles are real but lots of prayers asking for healing aren’t answered. Thus, why I write.  Do miracles not happen because some people are less sinful or beg better at the feet of an arbitrary God? A possible better explanation for healings is that various biological and environmental factors are involved such as cells and organs. It may not be a stretch to say God has to account for natural freedom as well. Perhaps miracles can happen when God’s love aligns with countless factors known and not known. God cannot intervene singlehandedly, but a loving God always wants to intervene whenever circumstances will allow.

Why bother to pray then?

We don’t have to assume God can answer our prayers but doesn’t for some unknown reason. God suffers with us, but the unfortunate truth in a free world is suffering happens, though God is dying to help. We can pray but we can be more understanding when God can’t answer our prayers. Lean on God and others for emotional support and encouragement in difficult times. Prayer is more than asking for things. We can also talk to God for self-examination, for sharing our concerns so to not feel alone in a chaotic world. Seeking God’s influence in our lives can lead to making wiser choices. God is already doing all they can in a free world. Pretending God can simply heal without accounting for freedom and other factors makes one’s suffering worse. God is tireless in working through individual lives to change the world.

God. where are you in suffering?

In our suffering we don’t have to feel God doesn’t care or that God could do something and doesn’t. God knows and empathizes with us in our suffering. God grieves with us. God can empower, inspire, and accompany us. God can influence us to follow Jesus’ example which can make for a much grander world. God doesn’t derive pleasure by seeing us in pain but the unfortunate truth in a free, uncontrollable world is that God’s power it limited and suffering happens. Lean on God and others for emotional support and encouragement in difficult times.

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

The Word of God

by Jim Gordon

When we hear someone talk about the Word of God, we immediately think of the Bible. I believed this for many years while growing up in church and being part of the institutional church.

As I started my religious deconstruction, I paid more attention to the words written in the book of John, ‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God’. Following that, there was this, ‘And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth’.

Obviously, this made me question the idea that the Bible was the word of God when the Bible itself was saying that Jesus is the Word of God.

So many of us focus on the Bible, almost making it part of the trinity. But, it is not the Father, Son and Holy Bible. We also focus on what version of the Bible is the true word of God. These verses state that Jesus is the true Word and is alive and living within us by the Spirit.

If we were never again able to read from the Bible or hear it read to us, we still have the Living Word of God within us to teach us and guide us. We are also told that ‘the anointing which you received from Him remains in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you remain in Him’.

When we read our Bibles, no matter what translation we prefer, we can be sure that the Spirit who lives within us brings those words to life, teaches us what God has for us and gives power to those words. Apart from that, the Bible is just a book that teaches us about what others thought about God. But the important part is that it leads us to Jesus who is the living Word of God.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Should We Assume The Bible Isn’t Inspired By God And Does It Matter? – All Rants Against The Bible Here

By Mike Edwards

If you read my weekly Post you are probably tired of my harping on the Bible. The word Bible has occurred over a 100 times in the title of my Post in the past decade or so.  See here.  This Post is an attempt to say all I feel needed about the topic of inspiration and the Bible. Honestly, I sometimes share some of the same content, just change the Post title to look at the topic asking a different question.

Many hearing claims that God inspired the Bible assume all characterizations in the Bible about God are true. They assume inspiration means God approved all recorded by the writers. They don’t think of inspiration as meaning that God encouraged or motivated writers/editors to record their understanding of God, thus possible being right or wrong.  I felt inspired to write this Post about God. That doesn’t mean all I claim about God is necessarily true.

It is important to realize that we can’t prove the Bible is or isn’t inspired by God. Besides, the Bible is literature that requires interpretation and we don’t all agree on the correct interpretation even concerning moral issues such as if God condemns gays or not. There are moral reasons to assume the Bible is not inspired. One then may ask how can we know God if not through the Bible, and others concerns such as how to read the Bible, whether to tell children bible stories, etc.

Can we prove the Bible is inspired by God or not? 

Can We Prove The Bible Is Inspired By God?

Even if we could prove God inspired every word in the Bible (God controlling the writers always accurately portrayed God), the Bible requires interpretation and such interpretations could be right or wrong

What Is Main Reason We Should Question if God Inspired The Bible?

Is The Bible Really The Word Of God

There are many important moral reasons to assume the Bible isn’t inspired by God 

Why Is It Important To Consider Bible Not Inspired?

 9 Reasons To Not Trust The Bible’s Claims About God!

How The Bible And The Quran Can Be Dangerous!

 How can we understand God if not through an inspired Holy Book?

 Do We Understand God Through The Bible or Common Moral Sense?

 Questions that may arise if questioning the inspiration of the Bible?

Are Biblical Stories Helpful Or Harmful To Children?

 Why Is One Defensive If Suggested The Bible May Have Errors?

 How Cn We Make Reading The Bible Less Difficult And More Enjoyable?

 Can We Stop Saying Our Nation Needs To Get Back To Biblical Truths?

 Can I Follow God If I Can’t Stand Reading The Bible?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Healing Divisions within the Body of Christ

by Michael Donahoe

When I think about the institutional church world today, I am disturbed that it is divided into so many different groups and denominations. We will all have a little different interpretation of the Bible, a little different understanding of doctrine and we will not agree on everything. Yet, we certainly should be able to love one another and accept each other even when we differ on these things. Afterall, we are all following the example of Jesus and we all love God.

It is hard to understand why this happens when God tells us we are to be one as Jesus and God are one. We have to understand that we are human and it is easy to lose sight of our first love. If we could only stay focused on Christ, listening for the guidance of the Spirit, loving God and loving others we could look past our differences and love one another with a godly love.

The problem seems to be that we are unwilling to see any other viewpoint other than our own. There are those such as my wife and I that do not attend an organized church. There are those who attend a church every time the doors are open. Some attend a house church, some meet with fellow believers at cafe’s, parks or restaurants and others meet in their homes over dinner. We should accept these differences and love one another rather than argue over who is right and who is wrong.

There really is not a right or wrong way to assemble together and we need to stop expecting everyone to do things exactly the same way. We should respect others viewpoints and focus on loving them rather than expecting them to see things our way.

Things will not change until we start focusing on what is common in our lives rather than the differences. The common focus should be on Christ, the head of the body. After that, we should focus on loving others rather than arguing about the differences in interpretation.

We also should keep in mind that we are all constantly changing as God brings new truth to us. We are all learning and changing as we are ready to accept new truths. The opinions I had ten years ago are completely different from some of the views I have now. I am sure in another five or ten years they will change again as the Spirit leads me into more truth.

Sometimes we are afraid to accept others interpretations because we feel if we do not hold to our way of thinking, we are compromising and not standing up for what we believe. We do not have to give up how we interpret the Bible or whether we attend church or not, but neither should we think everyone else is wrong. Besides, we really are not responsible for convicting people of sin, leading them into truth or even saving them. That is the job of the Holy Spirit. We are told to love God and love others.

When we realize we are each equally important functioning parts of the body, and Christ is the head, we can start to change how we feel about those who do not see things the way we do. We can begin to accept our brothers and sisters in Christ just as they are, realizing we are walking as one with God even in our differences.

*******

Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

A Cheap Counterfeit

by Norman Mitchell

Author of A Wild Frontier
https://thewildfrontier.wordpress.com/

Christianity, as it is practiced today, is nothing more than a religion which closely resembles most other religions. It holds the power to bind but not to free.

Photo by Tima Miroshnichenko

Religion has always been a human-powered effort to deal with the problem of human violence and appease an angry God. It’s really very simple. Humans, like animals, are instinctually primed for violence. Unlike animals, however, humans have a conscience. We universally recognize that intra-species violence is a blight on nature, yet we all fall prey to its allure. We recognize that there is something wrong with allowing ourselves to be governed by our animal instincts. We know that morality is a thing to which we should aspire. Our eyes have been opened—slightly—and we know good and evil.

Humans have always done two things to try to fix the problem of the human condition. First, we have always enforced rules governing conduct with the threat of violence. We call this politics. Second, we have always enforced rules governing conduct using cultural pressure. We call this religion. 

Clerics, the self-appointed overlords of Religion, use two powerful tools to keep the masses docile: guilt and ritual. Guilt is the bad feeling you get when you violate your moral code. Ritual is a semi-hypnotic process that suppresses rational thought and induces lethargy but gives people an intense feeling of belonging to a community. Religion induces guilt, then uses ritual and cultural influence to assuage that guilt. Guilt is the symptom, ritual is the “remedy” that lessens the effect of the symptom.

Ritual, however, does not cure the root of the problem. If guilt does not return of its own accord, it is induced. Either way, people become addicted to the treatment. It’s like taking a pain-killer so you don’t feel a gangrenous wound. You keep taking it in ever-increasing doses so that you don’t feel the pain, but the wound never heals.

Clerics also exploit one of the most primal of human instincts: the craving for certainty. They provide a formulaic method of appeasing The Angry God, and they present the formula with such confidence, that their subjects feel quite certain that they are doing the right thing. The laity gratefully accepts the formula, not recognizing that fulfilling the formula is never quite possible. The impossible formula strings people along, making them indefinitely beholden to the cleric and his religious institution.

Clerics justify this manipulation by pointing out that they’re using it to encourage people to do good, which (temporarily) suppresses human violence. Describing religion as “the opiate of the masses” was the one thing Marx got right.

Religion requires institutionalism—the fabrication of a conceptual structure that includes an artificial hierarchy. Institutions are always co-opted by exploiters who use its artificial hierarchy to gain status.

Everything Christ did undermined religion. He came to establish a divine kingdom in which he is the Head and his followers operate in community as members of the Body. Life in the Body reveals a God-powered mode of being that Paul described as a “new creature” and that Frank Viola describes as a “new species.”)

The God-powered mode of being flips religious dogma on its head. It frees people from guilt. It destroys the foundations of artificial hierarchies. Every member contributes. Every member is valued. The humblest servant is exalted, and the least becomes the greatest.

Christ broke people free from the guilt that bound them to religion. He ushered in a kingdom that heals wounds rather than treats symptoms. He shone light on the failings of the Jewish religion of his day, but as his words began to gain influence, people started a new religion that perverted Christ’s message and used his name to gain unearned brand credibility.

Would-be clerics fused fundamental elements of religion with Christ’s words and invented the Christian Religion that is now the world’s most insidious counterfeit of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Because such statements conjure such strong emotion, I suppose I should offer the usual caveat that I do not believe that all the people involved with the Christian Religion are counterfeits. I believe that many, if not most of them, are sincerely doing what they believe God requires. Rather the religion—the institutionalized, human-powered, ritual-driven system—is the counterfeit that keeps people in a state of spiritual serfdom.

The Christian Religion is a clever but cheap counterfeit of the Kingdom of Heaven. My desire is that more Christians would realize this and follow Christ freed from the shackles of religion.

Can We Prove The Bible Is Inspired By God?

By Mike Edwards

Many who claim the Bible is inspired by God seem to imply that God guided and controlled the writers, ensuring they wrote exactly what God intended, even while using their own vocabularies and styles. What proof do they have for such a claim?

Circular reasoning is not proof

Verses like 2 Timothy 3:16 (“All Scripture is God-breathed”) and 2 Peter 1:21 (“men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God”) are used to support the idea of divine inspiration and inerrancy. My claiming this Post is inspired by God doesn’t make it so. Those who claim this proof would not accept the Koran being inspired by Allah because internally it claims to be so

Fulfilled Prophecies are not proof

It is claimed the Bible contains hundreds of prophecies that have been fulfilled with precision, demonstrating God’s sovereignty and inspiration. I have written  here why it is doubtful God’s knows the future, thus negating genuine freedom. Thus, prophecies aren’t likely claiming what will happen in the future. They can’t. God doesn’t know what will happen in the future. Did God really have Jesus killed so God’s supposed words could be fulfilled? One can assume most prophecies are conditional because God changes if people will repent of their evil ways. See here.  Old Testament passages interpreted as Messianic prophecies could be conditional – Jesus will be killed if people don’t turn from evil.

Many passages, assumed to be Messianic, are not interpreted as such by many biblical scholars. Psalm 22 is often interpreted as regarding Jesus’ crucifixion, including reference to Jesus’ broken bones (Jn 19:36). Other scholars suggest this psalm regards a current suffering individual and later claimed by NT writer as referring to Jesus.

It is often claimed archaeological confirmation prove God’s inspiration of the Bible

Many archaeological claimed discoveries are disputed. One only needs to internet search biblical archaeology to notice not all biblical scholars confirmed the historical accuracy of all biblical accounts.  For example – findings do not support the biblical account of Jericho’s destruction around 1400 BC, as was uninhabited during Joshua’s supposed invasion. These scholars are not intentionally trying to disparage the Bible

Unity of the Bible written by 40 authors over 1500 years

The unity of the Bible having an undisputed message is debatable. Contradictions are one reason to doubt God’s inspiration/oversight of the Bible. If God can raise the dead, God can obviously control transmissions of words supposedly given to the biblical writers – but God didn’t! The list of contradictions may be trivial but are sizable (See Gregory Boyd, Inspired Imperfection, Chapter 1):

• II Sam 24:1 says God incited David to sin; I Chr 21:1 blames it on Satan
• 2 Kgs 24:6 says Jehoiakim had a son; Jer 36:30 says Jehoiakim didn’t have a son to reign after him
• Does God take pleasure in destroying (Deut. 28:63), or does God take no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezek. 33:11)?
• Does God punish children for the sins of parents (Ex. 34:7; Num. 14:18), or does God never punish children for what parents do (Ezek. 18:20)?
• Matthew says Jeremiah rather than Zechariah spoke about the thirty pieces of silver (Mt 27:9-10. Zech 11:12-13)
• Did Jesus say the rooster would crow once after Peter’s three denials (Mt 26.34, Lk 22:34, John 13:38), or did the rooster crow twice (Mk 14:30)

9 Reasons To Not Trust The Bible’s Claims About God!

Why it matters if you assume the Bible is inspired by God 

An inspired Book can lead to violence in God’s name. God supposedly orders Israel to commit hundreds of atrocities in the OT (i.e. I Sam 15:3). God’s assumed justification of violence can lead to imitation of violent solutions such as capital punishment, blowing up abortion clinics, or unnecessary wars in the name of God. An inspired book can lead to false claims about God concerning moral issues. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here.  See here.  See here.  Gays are often condemned, women’s leadership roles are limited despite their gifts, and it is suggested a fiery torturous afterlife awaits infidels in God’s name. It is perfectly okay to question if writers always understood God perfectly. It is only natural to wonder if God’s actions would ever violate our moral intuitions of a loving God regardless of one’s interpretation.  

Can We Prove The Bible Is Inspired By God?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

What May Be The Greatest Unknown Sin?

By Mike Edwards

We can’t be certain about God’s true character much less if God exist. Whether one believes in a God has an obvious faith component. Let’s not accuse those who believe in a God as needing a crutch or accuse those, who question the reality of an invisible God, as being wicked and ignorant of their feelings. If wrong to doubt God exists, Christians sin if doubt God in tough times. Christians are wrong a lot and destroy relationships by being so damn certain! 

The illusion of “certainty” may be the greatest reason we fail living by the golden rule

It requires some faith that a loving God is real. Feelings aren’t visible proof. Trusting there is such a God is no different than flying. We can’t be sure the plane won’t crash – we fly because we have reasonable faith that all safety precautions have been performed to land safely. Many God-followers or leaders seem hell-bent in telling people what to believe about God according to their interpretation of the Bible. Politicians seem hell-bent in claiming certainty regarding policies such as climate change, though there are reasonable arguments on both sides of the aisle. Open-minded uncertainty could go a long way to healing our nation and personal relationships.

Why might we love certainty?

Many find comfort psychologically in certainty rather than uncertainty. One may believe the seemingly certain narrative because unknowing can create anxiety. Also, disagreeing with friends or those in leadership about God’s character can lead to conflict and loneliness due to isolation. It doesn’t matter if those who proclaim certainty have good intentions or believe their ideas are right about God. Unless we are talking about universal accepted evilness such as rape, openness is critical in case we are wrong.

What is the path toward truth in an uncertain world 

What actions in relationships should guide us? Perfect ones of course. We may not always know what perfect love is, but we somehow know we ought to love others like we want to be loved. A parent’s perfect love surely is the same as God’s love. I don’t know one person, whether a church-goer or not, that doesn’t think any God worth believing in must be a perfect, loving God. Even atheists would agree if they thought a Supreme Being existed. The Bible even implies such an idea: “Be perfect, therefore as your heavenly Parent is perfect” (Mt. 5:48). We still must decide what perfect love is, but God surely didn’t create us to be totally clueless.

Why doesn’t God reveal more certainty? 

Billions of lives have been harmed by the Bible not being clearer that slavery or restricting women’s roles, etc. are certainly wrong. The only rationalization I know at this time why God seems so hidden is that God’s awing or overwhelming presence may only lead to fearful obligations to obey. The road traveled of learning, reflecting, and not being pressured may best lead to lasting convictions and more meaningful relationships. But God doesn’t get enough credit for communicating through our moral senses. There is almost universal belief that we ought to love one another how we want to be loved. Evils such as rape, sexual abuse, murder, stealing, etc. are universal beliefs. We don’t always know how to love best but we aren’t morally clueless.

Uncertainty can lead to acting more loving.

Truth is often not known but to be pursued. If you find one rational person that has a difference of opinion from your own, you should consider their opinion. I don’t care if it concerns the safety of vaccines, climate solutions, whether Hell literally exist, or if God condemns gays. We often don’t recognize what doesn’t work in our personal relationships always doesn’t work in the public arena. Partners who act as if they are always right and their partner is wrong are headed toward divorce or a sucky relationship. Having good intentions by believing you are right for the whole doesn’t matter when certainty isn’t universal. Being unable to declare the certainty or morality of our opinions forces us to listen and express ideas openly that can lead to the greater good. God doesn’t attempt to force but influence us to make choices with the interest of others in mind.

What May Be The Greatest Unknown Sin?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Words are a Matter of Interpretation

by Jim Gordon

So often, what we say and what we mean are two different things. Words can mean different things to different people.

Take for instance the word church. Most of us think of a building where Christian’s meet every Sunday for an organized, pre-planned service of music, prayer and a sermon by a paid pastor. In reality, church is better described by the word ekklesia. It is people who are following Christ and allowing Him to live and love through them. Church is not a place, a building, or the house of God and it is not at a set time or day. Church is the body of Christ, each of us equally functioning as parts of the body under Christ, living our lives each day by letting Christ live through us, loving and accepting others.

How about the word Christian. We think of people who love God, go to church, pray, read their Bible and try to do the right things. Actually, Christian is a man-made word that originally was used to describe those who followed the teaching of Jesus and were doing the works of Jesus. Today, rather than being the true sense of following Christ, it is more widely known as a religion. Christians are considered people who believe in Jesus, go to church, follow specific rules, adhere to a set doctrine, pray, read the Bible and try to get more people to come to their church. We think of Christians in the same sense as Jews, Muslims, Hindus and a host of other religions rather than a way of life walking with Jesus.

When we talk about prayer, we generally think of a set time when we make our requests known to God and thank God for answered prayer. In many formal meetings, prayers are written out and followed word for word to make people sound more spiritual. Actually, prayer is just talking like you would talk to a friend or relative only you are talking to God. Not only talking, but being quiet and listening for God to speak to us through the Spirit. Believe it or not, prayer is not spoken in King James English. It is talking to God just like we talk to anyone else.

What about the Bible. Of course, our first thought is a book that God inspired men to write. If we look closer at John 1:1, we find that the Bible is not a book at all. “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God”. Actually, the Word of God is Jesus. He is the inerrant, all powerful, living Word of God. The Bible is a book that contains writings of men that tell us about God and leads us to Jesus. By reading the Bible, we can learn a lot about God and the love God has for us, all shown through the life of Jesus. What we do not want to do is make the Bible equal to God. The Bible is not part of God, it is a book that tells us about God and leads us to Jesus.

The word worship is generally thought of as a time during the organized service when people are led into song and outward praise to God by a leader paid to bring people into an atmosphere of worship. The style of worship also varies greatly from group to group. Many people think worship is singing, meditating, lifting of hands or dancing. Worship is a true sense of reverence and adoring praise to God. It is personal and does not need a professional leader to bring us to this point. It is a sincere and earnest thankfulness we have for God. It can be by song and outward signs or it can be quiet and inward meditation.

I am sure there are many other words we could come up with that would fit here, but the main point is it is not as important the word we use, but the true meaning. In our life of service to God, Jesus is the focal point. It does not boil down to our doctrines, beliefs and man-made efforts. It is following Christ, allowing Him to live through us by the Spirit and giving God the throne of our lives. Jesus is the head of the body, the rest of us are equal parts with various giftings and functions.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Books That May Change Your View Of God!

By Mike Edwards

I wrote here 10 books that help changed my view of God for the better than what I had been taught at an earlier age. Intuitively, is God worth believing if not perfectly loving? Humans can only understand such love according to what perfect human love is like. See here.  I don’t always know what exactly such love is, but I would disregard biblical interpretations that don’t seemingly lead to loving your neighbor more according to your moral intuitions and understandings of perfection.

What inspired this Post is lately I have been cleaning out my book shelves. I am getting older and eventually all these books got to be moved somewhere. I probably had over a thousand books to begin with. I think I got it down to 100 books. I kept those that are favorites authors or those that I may read again. I am convinced one way to pursue truth is reading the ideas of others.

To add to my original list of 10 books is 5 more that I just didn’t want to leave out. Some are dated but worth your consideration. I think I am done:

• Chris Holtzen – The God Who Trusts: A Relational Theology of Divine. God is more loving humanly speaking than biblical folks give credit for. If God can be angry, God can be sad. God feels the same pain I do when my children are suffering. One can only get as close to God as their image of God allows.

• Clark Pinnock &Robert Brow – Unbounded Love. This book early on confirmed what my gut had been telling me for years about the true nature of God.

• Clark Pinnock’s – A Wideness in God’s Mercy. I happily was empowered to imagine that God may eventually saved all people either here on earth in the life to come.

• Mickelson – Women, Authority, and the Bible. One of the first books I read on biblical gender roles that confirmed my intuitive views on men and women roles at home and in the church. So many books on the subject followed.

• Talbott – The Inescapable Love Of God. Talbott argues Western theological tradition has managed to twist the New Testament message of love, forgiveness, and hope into a message of fear and guilt.

Books That May Change Your View Of God!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

What Is A Religious Done

by Michael Donahoe

In recent times, we seem to hear more about the religious dones. Different surveys talk about the nones, the dones and the religious unaffiliated. This means different things to different people.

I think many church people and Christian people think the same thing on this topic. If you are a religious none, you have left God. If you are a religious done and do not go to church, you have decided not to follow God and are in a backslidden state.

I do not believe that at all. Being done with religion to me means done with organized religion and institutional church, but not done with God. We are done with religion, but only because we want a more meaningful walk following the example of Jesus. So basically, we leave the organization to enhance our walk with God.

For about twenty years, I increasingly became more and more disillusioned with church. I sat there week after week thinking there has to be more, God certainly did not intend that following him meant nothing more than looking at the back of the head of the person in front of me. We sit for an hour listening to a few other people do all the singing and preaching, then get up and go home for the week.

I felt that the church emphasized more that we listen to the pastor and follow the Bible rather than learn how to listen to and follow the Spirit that was within us. I realized that we no longer needed a middle man because we are the temple of the Holy Spirit and we find the Kingdom of God within us.

I remember how afraid I was to ask questions because people would think I was losing my faith. I was tired of hearing exclusive teaching and discrimination by telling us how bad certain people were and that we needed to stay away from them. The only exception was if we used every opportunity to witness to them. The church would say everyone was welcome, but then exclude them from participation until they changed and became like the church expected.

I could not understand why there were so many different types of churches and denominations, all supposedly following the same God yet being mad and arguing with people from different churches.

I think I could go on and on, but I just got so tired and dissatisfied with church that my wife and I decided to stop going and see how things went. Well, for us, they went better. That dissatisfaction seemed to disappear. I started having relationships with others that I was told I should have no association. I started asking questions and finding that it was OK. I started finding new friends in various places and they did not ruin my fellowship or belief in God.

I know many people who enjoy going to church to be with others and that is OK. Yet I know others who got fed up with church and had issues that made them mad. For us, that was not the case. We just felt so unhappy and unfulfilled while in the institutional church we had to move on.

I think most people think that if you are a done, you have completely given up on God. They think you became an atheist and want nothing to do with God, when actually it is just religion itself we are done with, and we no longer want to spend time in a building that just does not mean what it used to mean.

After fifteen years outside the institutional church, we can honestly say we are happier and more fulfilled. We rely more on learning to hear from the Spirit within, we are free from specific doctrines and beliefs found in religion and we depend more on God to lead us to meaningful fellowship with all people as we walk in the freedom we have found outside the walls of religion.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/