Could Our Claims About God Turn People Off?

by Mike Edwards

I don’t write to push God on others. I am convinced God is big enough to make their own case with those seeking more of a connection with their Creator. I just know God has made me a better husband, father, and friend by their influence. I enjoy discussing my journey with those so inclined. Even if it turns out God doesn’t exist, what have I lost by living a life with fewer regrets.

One might argue the biggest obstacle Christians put in the way of others interested in pursuing God is hypocrisy. If you treat people like dirt, I doubt you are being influenced by the God I know. Most folks though understand no one is perfect. But if Christians fail to admit or confess their faults, good luck discussing your relationship with God with others.

Claims I consider false, made by Christians about God, may be the greatest problem. It is said:

• Evolution can’t be true and God couldn’t have used evolution in the creative process
• Women can’t be pastors or priests and wives should be more submissive to husbands than husbands should be to their wives
• God condemns gays who are naturally attracted to those of their same sex and God forbid they get married
• God is going to burn in hell forever those who deny God here on earth Most humans wouldn’t even justify such torture for their worst enemies. To Hell with those who grew up in a family of another religion that believed in the golden rule
• God before creation elected some to be God’s children and the rest can freely go to Hell
• God can control evil, despite creating freedom, thus in reality God controls how much each suffers
• God can magically answer your prayers and if God doesn’t, you must have some hidden sin or not praying the right words
• God can tell you to love your enemies but supposedly God can command the killing of women and children as in the Old Testament. Maybe the writers didn’t understand God fully at the time
• If you are an atheist or not all-in about God, you are simply being rebellious to justify living selfishly
• You don’t really love God if you don’t attend the institutional church on a regular basis

It is claimed the Bible is all about avoiding Hell rather than God desiring to have a relationship with you here on earth to face challenges inevitable in an imperfect world.

Do you doubt any of the above claims? Most if not all of the above beliefs come from one’s understanding of a Book. It is seldom admitted Christians disagree in good conscience about the above claims in the Bible about God.

Besides, many act as if it can be proven that God controlled or approved all that is claimed about God in the Bible, that God somehow magically download their thoughts and words into the writer’s brain.

Do you wish you could get more into God but certain claims are a problem? Don’t believe everything you hear. God surely gave us a brain and moral conscience to decide evil from good. If God is evil in any way, that is a God not worth believing in!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

We All Live by Faith

(And We All See Things Differently)

by Jim Gordon

It has always amazed me how some Christians can be so argumentative. They just do not know how to accept one another’s differences in doctrine or interpretation.

Following Jesus is based on loving God and loving others. Yet we have nearly 40,000 different denominations, mainly because we cannot agree and accept one another.

People will argue and defend their doctrines and interpretations, and then get mad when others disagree or have a different viewpoint. Even when they partly agree, they feel the need to point out where each other differs because they think that their way is right and everyone else is a little off.

I understand that people are not going to agree on everything, and that each of us have a little different way of seeing things and understanding things. The problem is that many go too far when they let these differences separate them. They want to keep in their own particular group, which they usually feel is the more correct way to believe, and do not want to associate with others. This should not be. Each of us can have our differences and still not separate ourselves from other brothers and sisters in Christ.

In a sense, we are all people of faith. No one can prove beyond a doubt that their way is right. People have faith there is a God, or faith there is not a God; faith in the after-life and heaven, or faith there is no hell; faith in reincarnation, or faith that there is just an end to our existence. None of us can prove or disprove any of it, yet many are ready to fight and argue amongst themselves trying to defend their viewpoint and interpretations even when they cannot prove anything.

No matter what we believe about God and spiritual life, none of us can prove our beliefs. It is all by faith.

As mentioned in the Bible, we walk by faith not by sight. For me, I choose to put my faith in a God who created me and loves me, a God who has provided freedom from sin and who has come to make a home within me so that I will forever be in His presence.

I also respect the rights of others to feel differently. I do not think it is my responsibility to expect anyone to believe the same as me, or to put their faith in the same things that I do. It is the Holy Spirit who draws others to God. It is the Spirit who teaches us and leads us into truth. My responsibility is to love and accept everyone as they are, and be available for God to show godly love through me.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

When Did the New Covenant Begin?

by Jim Gordon

For those of us who grew up in the church, most understand the difference between the Old and New Testament. Yet we seem to be confused over the new testament and the new covenant.

Many of us believe the new covenant began with the book of Matthew. The fact of the matter is, there is a big difference between the New Testament of the Bible and the New Covenant.

The Old Testament talks a lot about life before Jesus came to live on earth. It contains the Old Covenant Law God made with the Jewish people. This Old Covenant continues beyond the Old Testament of the Bible and into the New Testament.

What many people are not taught is that the New Testament is not entirely the New Covenant. Jesus taught for thirty-three years under the Old Covenant Law. His sermon on the mount and the beatitudes showed the impossibility of completely keeping the old covenant law, and it showed the authority Jesus had over the law.

When Jesus died, the old covenant was fulfilled and came to an end. When Jesus arose, a new covenant began which restored fellowship between God and the human race. This new covenant was no longer based on laws and rules, but it was freely given to us through grace.

The problem now that the new covenant is in effect is that many of us want to continue to live by the old covenant law and mix it with new covenant grace. The fact is we no longer live by the old covenant law. We no longer have to worry about the 10 commandments or the 603 other laws that were given to the Jewish people. Does that mean we can now live as we please and do whatever we want? Well, we can but it is not in our best interest to do so.

We now live by love through the grace of God. When we truly love God, there are no rules or laws that we need to keep to make things better. We love God, therefore we want to do what pleases God. It is a life of freedom, not to do anything we want but freedom to love and have fellowship with God apart from any rules and regulations on how to do so.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

The Sign Says Everyone Welcome, But Are They?

by Jim Gordon

How many of us have passed a church building and saw a sign out front that says ‘Everyone Welcome’?

When I see one, I always wonder if they really mean what they say. I have seen so many congregations over the years get set in their ways and enjoy the people who are “regulars”, but what would happen if everyone did come to their church?

What would the thoughts and feelings be if a gay couple walked in, or a few prostitutes decided to come in for a service. What if a group of homeless people walked in to hear the Sunday morning message? Would everyone be truly welcome? And remember, these are not people who are sinful people, they just wear the wrong label for most church attendees.

We know that Jesus welcomed everyone, literally, and mostly those who the religious folk did not want to have any association. Jesus met with and cared for the people who probably would not go to an organized religious meeting (what we call church), either because they would not be welcome or because they just did not think they would fit in.

Maybe that says something about our organized church of today. Maybe we have become so involved with religion and the proper way of doing things that we have lost our first love. Could we be so caught up in the trends of modern religion that we forget our relationship with the God of the universe? The God who told us to love one another.

Maybe we need to concentrate more on living in fellowship with Christ on a daily basis, loving Him and loving others, and not worry so much about what building we go to on Sunday morning….if we go at all. The true Church is not a building, and it does not matter which day we meet or where we meet. The Church is a community of believers who live for Him each and every day. We should not be focused on a building nor an organization, but on a daily walk with Him.

To love God with all our heart, soul, strength and mind, and to love others as ourselves fulfills the law. We no longer need to worry about obeying the old covenant law or the rules and regulations the denomination has set up. We now live under a new covenant which went into effect at the death and resurrection of Jesus. We now have the Living Word within us through the Holy Spirit. We no longer need any man to teach us the ways of God, because now the Spirit is our guide.

It is time to put our focus back on our first love, Jesus. It is time to live out our relationship with God on a daily basis, not only on one day. Living as a follower of Christ is a daily way of life. We are to love God, love others, and be prepared to give an answer of the hope that is within us to those who ask us. I pray we are all letting the love of God show through us so that others will be drawn to Him and feel welcome in his presence.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

 

What To Know About God In A 100 Words!

by Mike Edwards

I have written A Book About God – God May Be The God You Hoped For!  after over 45 years in my journey with God. I write briefly on different views in hopes you will be encouraged to explore your own convictions. Many are rightly turned off by what others claim about God. Don’t believe everything you hear. You may discover a God worth believing in.

What To Know About God In A 100 Words!

One could say it takes as much faith to believe there is a Creator or there is no Creator. If you have any inclination to believe there is a God, this is what I think about God in hopes to whet your appetite to read further.

A Creator must be the furthest thing from evil to claim to be God. We can’t know God perfectly according to the Bible because literature requires interpretation, and we don’t know if the writers understood God perfectly initially. Most sense a morally perfect God, parent, partner, or friend is not a sexist, sadistic torturer, angry egomaniac, homophobe, warmonger, freedom denier like terrorists, hater of atheists, etc. God is likely the kind of God you imagine a good God would be like. If true, God surely desires to help you become more like the person you deep down want to become.

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

The Word of God is Not a Book

by Jim Gordon

John 1:1 – In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 — And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

These verses clearly state that Jesus is the true, living, inerrant Word of God. It is not a book, but a living part of God.

Not to sound sacrilegious, but sometimes we followers of Christ can actually make too much of the Bible. People will hold it up and say it is the word of God and worship it more than they worship Christ. Yet it is Christ who is the true Word of God. He is the living and powerful Word and His Spirit lives within us.

In John 5:39 and 40, Jesus told the religious leaders “you study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life”. The religious leaders of the day spent so much time studying the scriptures that they missed the Living Word standing right in front of them. So often, we seem to do the very same thing.

The words written in the Bible are stories of men and women from only a certain recorded period of time. They wrote according to what they saw, what they believed, how they related to God and sometimes what they wished God would do. I also believe that many stories written were parables used to show a spiritual truth.

Over time the various translations certainly lost the original meaning due to custom change, word meaning change and even translators missing the mark on what was actually written.

This certainly does not mean we do not need to read the Bible, but we do need to keep it in its proper place. Apart from the guidance and enlightenment of the Spirit, the words of the Bible are nothing more than words in a book.

Rather than think of the trinity as the Father, Son and Holy Bible, we need to remember the Bible does not even record that it is the word of God. It certainly is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness, but it is not perfect or inerrant in itself. The most important part the Bible plays is that it does lead us to the inerrant, living Word of God who is Jesus.

Jesus is who we are to look to for everything. He is the Word. He is our all in all and his Spirit lives within us as our teacher and guide.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Aren’t We Better Off With A Fallible Than Inspired Bible?

by Mike Edwards

The truth is we can’t prove God somehow controlled the views of the writers to be correct about God. Some may define God’s inspiration only as motivating writers to share their experiences with God, but God didn’t necessarily control or approved all written about God. Anyway, one is either convinced God controlled the words of the Bible to accurately portray God, or the Bible is uncontrolled writings which encourages openly contemplating what a loving God is really like.

Even if you believe God inspired every word of the Bible, it is complicated.

We don’t possess the original manuscripts but only what was copied from the original. Did God’s inspiration control that process? The many translations/versions of the Bible we have today suggest copying is not an exact process. Even if we had the original autographs, interpretation is still required. Scholars who believe in the authority of Scriptures disagree what the Bible says about critical issues such as homosexuality, gender roles, divorce, Hell, etc. Interpretations are not infallible, but many don’t begin a discussion with “I may be wrong?”

What may be the main reason many believe the Bible is inspired? 

It is suggested if the Bible isn’t inspired, “then you can’t know God for sure.” This implies interpretations are infallible which of course they aren’t. We aren’t totally clueless! Universal moral outrage hints of a Creator’s influence through our moral intuitions. Who doesn’t know a good God hates beheading people because they don’t share your beliefs unless a supposed infallible Book supposedly speaks for God? We just know we ought to treat others like we want to be treated.

Uncertainty doesn’t mean anything goes. The Bible even suggests perfect human love and God’s love are the same: “Be perfect, therefore as your heavenly Parent is perfect” (Mt. 5:48). We don’t always know what perfect love entails but at least we always know the question we ought to ask ourselves – am I loving others perfectly or am I loving others like our Creator loves. Clearly, Bible or no Bible, not everything goes especially if it contradicts your moral sense of a loving God.

Not questioning the Bible can lead to violence’s in God’s name.

When you regard the Bible as the revealed Word of God, this can lead to not questioning actions contributed to God. Does God really approved all actions contributed to God in the Bible? Not questioning if writers always portrayed God accurately has led to justifying killing infidels in the name of God. God’s supposed warlike attitudes in the Old Testament have been used to justify wars throughout history. Imagine if terrorists admitted that God possibly didn’t approve of actions they interpret as denying freedom of beliefs!

Many reject God for the wrong reasons because of claims made about God. 

An inspired Bible has led to claims about God that don’t make moral sense to many. Supposed “inspired interpretations” has led to putting men in leadership positions over women which has encouraged historical dominance on the man’s part. People condemn gays, despite their moral intuitions, because God supposedly rejects same gender loving relationships according to a Book. When God is portrayed as less than perfectly loving, understandably this can lead to atheism or rejecting God. A fallible Book may actually lead to knowing God better.

Didn’t Jesus though say the Bible was inspired?

Does John 5:45-46 claim that Jesus said believing in Jesus is believing what Moses wrote? This doesn’t confirm that Moses or any OT writer always wrote perfectly about God. Jesus seemed to correct OT laws that didn’t fully or correctly convey God’s ways (Mt 5). Some scholars suggest Jesus was simply expanding or interpreting correctly OT laws. The OT and the Bible is valuable because it gets us talking about what a loving God is really like. Regardless, we must use common moral sense because ancient literature requires interpretation.

Aren’t we better off with a fallible than infallible Bible?

A universal, inborn desire to treat others like we want to be treated is one way a Creator could communicate what is good versus evil. Choose the claim or interpretation about God that doesn’t contradict your intuitive sense of a loving God. Moral intuitions are fallible but at least they should join the party of fallible interpretations. We will disagree but civil discussions are possible. We don’t always know what perfect love is, but it is better to challenge God than not question God and be wrong. A different view of God, than claimed by many Bible folks, may be the help our world needs in loving others like we want to be loved.

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com 

I Have Left Christianity

(What Exactly Does that Mean?)

by Jim Gordon

Over the past short period of time, we have heard of several “high profile christian leaders” say that they have left Christianity.

We have heard such comments from Joshua Harris, Paul Maxwell, Marty Sampson and I am sure several others.

When we hear this, many of us think that they have walked away from their faith and belief in God. Yet to rush into this way of thinking, we need to determine what exactly does the person mean by leaving Christianity.

I know first hand for my wife and I what it means, and it has nothing to do with leaving my faith or love for God.

The way I see it, Christianity is known more as a religion, just as Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism or any of the many other religions out there. Christianity is a religion based on Christ but certainly not started by nor endorsed by Jesus.

When reading the gospels we read how the disciples came to know and follow Jesus. At that time they did so apart from any religion, especially Christianity since the word was not even known at that time. In Acts 11:26 people were first called Christians, which was after Jesus had returned to the Father.

Christianity, in my opinion, is generally stereotyped into people who go to church each week, they follow a particular doctrine, regularly read their bible, tithe their money to the church and often think their way is the only way. In the United States they tend to be republican, are against abortion and believe those who are LGBTQ are the worst of sinners.

When I say I have left Christianity, I mean I am walking away from this stereotyped religion. In no way have I left my faith in God or turned from following Jesus, who said to love God and love one another. This can certainly be done apart from Christianity.

So, no longer being Christian, I can honestly say I love God, follow Jesus and love people. I do not attend a church organization, I do not put trust into any particular religious doctrine, I read the bible but I do not believe it is a rule book or an inerrant document. The Spirit lives within us and the Spirit leads and guides us. Apart from the Spirit bringing to life passages written in the bible, the book itself is a document written by men about their belief and experiences with God. I do not tithe but I give to help others. I am an independent voter and fully affirm and support those who are LGBTQ. On the matter of abortion, I certainly understand a woman wanting the freedom to make choices about her body. I also understand for those who believe life begins at conception, they would have a hard time believing abortion is the right choice. I believe rather than fighting about whether abortion is right or wrong, it would be much better to come up with alternatives on how to support women no matter which decision they make ( read more here ).

There are so many views and opinions within Christianity. We will all never completely agree. Yet our commonality is in our love for God, love for Jesus and love for our fellow human beings. As John 13:34-35 reads, ‘a new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another’. Nothing here mentions Christianity or any religion. One does not need to follow a religion to love one another.

So, for my wife and I, we have left the religion of Christianity and are enjoying walking outside the box of religion and doctrinally controlled ideas. We are free to love, live and give as the Spirit leads us and for us, it is a much more meaningful way of walking with God.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Which View Of God Is Right?

by Mike Edwards

Did you know biblical scholars disagree whether Hell is a literal place according to the Bible? Biblical scholars who respect the authority of Scriptures don’t agree that God condemns homosexuality or that God forbids women from being preachers or priests. See here.  See here. The truth is biblical truths are debatable! 

What might a loving God be like?

An analogy helps to discern what might be commonalities in understanding God. The Bible refers to God as our Heavenly Father/Parent. God obviously isn’t exactly like human parents for we cannot be in all places at one time, but the Bible encourages imitating or being perfect like God (Eph. 5:1; Mt. 5:48). Human and God’s perfection are surely the same. How you wished to be loved by your parents is how God loves us.

Hell or Hell No! 

Jesus used the Greek word Gehenna which is translated into our word Hell. Many, many scholars believe Gehenna is a metaphor to describe what evil can lead to here on earth, not a place in the afterlife where God acts as a sadistic torturer. Humans wouldn’t even create such a place to torture their enemies after death. God’s supposed justification of violence to be appeased has led to excusing our own violent solutions in the name of justice. People are rejecting God because Hell makes no moral sense.  Since there is doubt, shouldn’t we stop preaching Hell?

Women leaders or not?   

Most would agree it is immoral to favor one based on the color of their skin. An argument could be made that to favor men over women for particular roles is sexist or bigotry. I doubt most Christians or Muslims would deny women equality unless they believe they should in the name of God according to some Book. Women can obviously feel disrespected and confused why a supposedly loving God would choose according to gender than gifts. Putting men in leadership position over women can be conducive for abuse and other atrocities women face at the hands of men. Shouldn’t we choose the least harmful interpretation of a Book? 

Gay or straight? 

It doesn’t make moral sense why God would condemn gays when they can no more chose who they love than straights can. Ask them! Why would anyone choose to be gay based on the condemnation and bigotry they face? Parents often only condemn their gay children because of their supposed correct interpretation of a Book. We know the psychological harm done when one must hide their sexuality because of bigotry and hostility. Shouldn’t we choose the least harmful view? 

Which view to take?

Shouldn’t we choose views of God with fewer negative physical and psychological costs? Shouldn’t we be guided by love – how should I treat others if I was in their shoes? Err on the side that portrays God as the most loving to the human mind. It is better to question rather than claim certainty and be wrong! Can you imagine meeting God one day and God saying “why did you decide on the view that made the most loving, moral sense to you? To Hell with you!”

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com 

Church Abuse and LGBTQ

by Jim Gordon

When we talk about the subject of church abuse, we know that many people have been abused and treated wrong within the system. Some more severely that others, but none of it is right.

I think one of the groups that seem to be affected most by this are those who are LGBTQ. I have seen this group of people treated rudely and like second class citizens in the church where they should be finding love and acceptance. God said to love our neighbors, he did not say to love only a chosen few.

Even in the churches that are actually accepting, LGBTQ people are often not allowed to participate fully within the organization or hold certain positions. It is like saying, yes, we accept you as long as you come to our services where we can tell you how wrong you are and hopefully get you changed. That is certainly not acceptance.

Christian people will deny rights and services to LGBTQ people based on their personal christian beliefs. Even government office holders can refuse certain services and basically get away with it because they say it goes against their christian morals. As a christian myself, I say these things should not be.

Labels are placed on many people, gay/straight, black/white, male/female, christian/atheist, American/foreign, yet behind those labels are human beings who were created in the image of God. They are loved and accepted by God. As followers of Christ, we are told to be known for our love for one another, not our exclusion, judgment and condemnation.

I feel for those who are LGBTQ. It hurts to see people who are created and loved by God be rejected and abused by his followers. I think it is time to look past the labels, look past your personal feelings and accept people just the way they were created.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com